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Post by Telemachus on Mar 3, 2020 19:35:07 GMT
And anyway, although he was going rather fast, a non-E-bike is capable of 30mph with a bit of downhill and a fit rider.
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 3, 2020 19:37:49 GMT
My fastest ever journey on a pushbike was from Bletchley to Hertford in 2 hours. It is 40 miles. Therefore 20mph average.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 19:40:32 GMT
You kill someone and no blame is attached? The machine was legally a motorbike and its ok there was no insurance? I suppose there are too many grey areas surrounding e-bikes at the present. But notwithstanding that the motor is supposed to cut out at 15mph, that the speed limit is 20mph, and he was reported as moving at more than 30mph, you would think some of that shit would stick. Remember the guy on a track bike who killed someone near the City Road? All he could be charged with was 'furious riding', an archaic law that nonetheless saw him go to the clink. Why did this guy get let off? Its all bollocks. He had this bike souped-up, and he knew it. The term is 'suped-up' as in supercharger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 19:43:20 GMT
Every day is a school day.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 19:44:08 GMT
And anyway, although he was going rather fast, a non-E-bike is capable of 30mph with a bit of downhill and a fit rider. Yes but not on a flat urban road with pedestrians everywhere and no unusual wind assistance. It would be good if things like this get discussion going about the situation. Cyclists in urban areas whether on normal bikes or electric bikes should be obliged to have insurance and wear hi Viz jackets with their registration number. That would sort it and protect both cyclists and other people. And it's about time fast ebikes were included in some sort of legislation. Preferably the same legislation as push bikes. Ebikes are a very good transport solution as are bicycles but they are unfortunately idiot magnets.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 3, 2020 19:46:06 GMT
You kill someone and no blame is attached? The machine was legally a motorbike and its ok there was no insurance? I suppose there are too many grey areas surrounding e-bikes at the present. But notwithstanding that the motor is supposed to cut out at 15mph, that the speed limit is 20mph, and he was reported as moving at more than 30mph, you would think some of that shit would stick. Remember the guy on a track bike who killed someone near the City Road? All he could be charged with was 'furious riding', an archaic law that nonetheless saw him go to the clink. Why did this guy get let off? Its all bollocks. "The court heard it was not possible to tell from CCTV footage whether Ms Cihan had looked both ways before stepping off the curb." - just what has that got to do with anything? It does at least go to show that the clueless fuckwitts who write these Daily Mail articles are too uneducated in the English language to understand the difference between "curb" and "kerb".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 19:52:28 GMT
On the other hand, it was at traffic lights which were green for the cyclist and red for the pedestrian. If you are going to cross on a pedestrian red light, you had better be absolutely sure there is nothing coming, not be glued to your phone, otherwise you qualify for a Darwin Award. It's easy to make assumptions though isn't it. I remember when I had a Land Rover defender in the late 90s I used to drive it like it was a normal car despite it looking like a farm vehicle. This seemed to regularly surprise people as they had already decided in advance that it was a slow vehicle and would pull out in front of it in a way that would not happen with an ordinary car. You can't underestimate this and I think describing crossing the road in front of a 30mph ebike as a Darwin award situation is a bit wrong personally.
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 3, 2020 19:56:28 GMT
Are cyclists (no-E) subject to vehicle road speed limits? Not sure. Since there is no requirement to have a speedometer, I suggest not.
And someone mentioned “what about blind people” but I think you’ll find blind people don’t just step off the kerb and hope for the best, they wait at the traffic lights until there is lots of beeping.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 3, 2020 20:00:21 GMT
On the other hand, it was at traffic lights which were green for the cyclist and red for the pedestrian. If you are going to cross on a pedestrian red light, you had better be absolutely sure there is nothing coming, not be glued to your phone, otherwise you qualify for a Darwin Award. I think describing crossing the road in front of a 30mph ebike as a Darwin award situation is a bit wrong personally. If I've read the story correctly, the pedestrian crossed the road at a pedestrian crossing where the light was displaying a red aspect against her and a green aspect for the cyclist. Any other information is irrelevant. Should a pedestrian choose to cross a road against a red light then surely the obligation is on them to ensure it is safe to do so?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 20:01:18 GMT
Are cyclists (no-E) subject to vehicle road speed limits? Not sure. Since there is no requirement to have a speedometer, I suggest not. And someone mentioned “what about blind people” but I think you’ll find blind people don’t just step off the kerb and hope for the best, they wait at the traffic lights until there is lots of beeping. Actually a lot of pedestrian crossings (traffic light type) now have little rotating knobs under the control panel rather than beeping. They start turning when the green Man comes on. A tactile system rather than audible. ETA this is presumably meant to prevent misleading bleeping from nearby signals. What I am unsure of is how it would work in the event of two deaf dumb and blind pinball players being on the same crossing with only one of them able to get their hand on the rotating cone.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 20:01:33 GMT
And anyway, although he was going rather fast, a non-E-bike is capable of 30mph with a bit of downhill and a fit rider. Cyclists in urban areas whether on normal bikes or electric bikes should be obliged to have insurance and wear hi Viz jackets with their registration number. Fat chance of that when the present system can't police motor vehicles particularly well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 20:06:07 GMT
Are cyclists (no-E) subject to vehicle road speed limits? Not sure. Since there is no requirement to have a speedometer, I suggest not. And someone mentioned “what about blind people” but I think you’ll find blind people don’t just step off the kerb and hope for the best, they wait at the traffic lights until there is lots of beeping. There seems to be a fair bit of support for arsehole cycle riders here. Personally whenever I hear of one involved in an incident I think of the guy who set off across Vauxhall Cross at rush-hour just as the lights turned green for crossing traffic (all five lanes of it). His response? He smirked and looked the other way.
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 3, 2020 20:11:28 GMT
Are cyclists (no-E) subject to vehicle road speed limits? Not sure. Since there is no requirement to have a speedometer, I suggest not. And someone mentioned “what about blind people” but I think you’ll find blind people don’t just step off the kerb and hope for the best, they wait at the traffic lights until there is lots of beeping. Yes. They are. There seems to be a fair bit of support for arsehole cycle riders here. Personally whenever I hear of one involved in an incident I think of the guy who set off across Vauxhall Cross at rush-hour just as the lights turned green for crossing traffic (all five lanes of it). His response? He smirked and looked the other way. There is support for people cycling reasonably. There is no support for people cycling recklessly. There is also no support for people crossing the road when their light is on red and someone else’s light is on green, and then whinging when they get run over. Certainly, some cyclists are selfish and irresponsible, but to extrapolate that to have the view that all cyclists are the same, is stupid and ignorant. Oh and can you cite a source for you first statement, or is it just wishful thinking?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 20:20:45 GMT
Yes. They are. There seems to be a fair bit of support for arsehole cycle riders here. Personally whenever I hear of one involved in an incident I think of the guy who set off across Vauxhall Cross at rush-hour just as the lights turned green for crossing traffic (all five lanes of it). His response? He smirked and looked the other way. Oh and can you cite a source for you first statement, or is it just wishful thinking? Yeah, it was actually. Oh well. But there is this: Careless and inconsiderate Cycling: If a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other people using the road, they are guilty of an offence. The fine for careless cycling is £1,000 and a maximum of £2,500 for dangerous cycling. Causing injury by cycling furiously: This applies to legislation that dates back to 1861 and carries a 2 year prison sentence if found guilty. It applies to drivers of vehicles or carriages, including bicycles. Cycling furiously (no injury caused): You can get up to a £1,000 charge for cycling furiously, or for cycling too fast for the conditions you are in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 20:27:15 GMT
I find it interesting that the fact the ebike was technically illegal appears to have been overlooked.
This seems to be a green light for more illegal ebikes to turn up. And more incidents and accidents to take place.
Simple fact is that people do cross the road sometimes when the light is red for pedestrians. That is not something which will suddenly change. Seeing a bicycle in the distance it is easy to assume it won't be travelling much over 15mph and because of its small width and possibly also having a flashing light it is awkward to work out the approach speed so the default assumption could easily be that it is not going at 25-30mph.
I think that would be reasonable.
The suggestion people should never cross urban roads unless the green man is showing is nonsense.
That would simply lead to a wheel dominated existence. Some people don't want to travel by wheel as it is non convivial for humans.
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