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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 3, 2020 22:46:29 GMT
The simple fact is that the pedestrian didn't check to see if the road was clear before crossing. Far more likely that the pedestrian did check and made a possibly rather rapid judgement that the vehicle approaching was a bicycle which it would be safe to cross in front of due to the flat road and the tendency for bicycles not to be doing 30 miles an hour. For any pedestrian (and obviously I am frequently a pedestrian myself) the requirement is to observe oncoming traffic and assess its speed and trajectory before deciding if it is safe to cross the road. It is unwise to say the least to assume that an oncoming vehicle must be travelling more slowly than it appears simply because similar vehicles do not travel at a similar speed. If I was invited to speculate, I would say that the pedestrian was probably checking her Facebook on her mobile phone rather than looking where she was going.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 22:57:36 GMT
Far more likely that the pedestrian did check and made a possibly rather rapid judgement that the vehicle approaching was a bicycle which it would be safe to cross in front of due to the flat road and the tendency for bicycles not to be doing 30 miles an hour. For any pedestrian (and obviously I am frequently a pedestrian myself) the requirement is to observe oncoming traffic and assess its speed and trajectory before deciding if it is safe to cross the road. It is unwise to say the least to assume that an oncoming vehicle must be travelling more slowly than it appears simply because similar vehicles do not travel at a similar speed. If I was invited to speculate, I would say that the pedestrian was probably checking her Facebook on her mobile phone rather than looking where she was going. Interestingly that's what the jerk who killed the woman in Old St claimed before he was shown to also be a liar. But in fairness it does happen and far more than it should which is why you should be eyeballing them as well as the guy in front... I hate driving in London. It is so stressful. I'm glad I don't have to do it much anymore.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 4, 2020 0:15:54 GMT
The problem with having a judge decide on such matters is that he or she has to decide, one way or the other.
It seems that the bike user was going too fast, the victim didn't look properly. So, the blame should be shared.
This is the problem with our highly regulated and blame based road system. In the vast majority of road accidents both parties contribute. For example: a car shoots a red light and hits another going through on green. 100% the fault of the light jumper? Almost certainly not. If the driver going through on green had looked out for cars going through on red he or she would likely have been able to avoid the accident. But he or she didn't, 'because she was in the right, she had priority'
I speak as a motorcyclist who's still alive, but would almost certainly now be dead, had he spent his life slavishly following road regulations. It's about time other road users adopted a similar outlook, we'd all be much safer then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 2:12:37 GMT
The problem with having a judge decide on such matters is that he or she has to decide, one way or the other. It seems that the bike user was going too fast, the victim didn't look properly. So, the blame should be shared. This is the problem with our highly regulated and blame based road system. In the vast majority of road accidents both parties contribute. For example: a car shoots a red light and hits another going through on green. 100% the fault of the light jumper? Almost certainly not. If the driver going through on green had looked out for cars going through on red he or she would likely have been able to avoid the accident. But he or she didn't, 'because she was in the right, she had priority' I speak as a motorcyclist who's still alive, but would almost certainly now be dead, had he spent his life slavishly following road regulations. It's about time other road users adopted a similar outlook, we'd all be much safer then. You don't do black OR white, you do black AND white. Good lad!
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 4, 2020 5:03:22 GMT
Every day is a school day. I was referring to the can of Heinz 57 Varieties steak & potato soup he had in his box.
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 4, 2020 5:13:53 GMT
It beggars belief that the judge (or magistrate) ruled that someone riding a powered bicycle, classified in law as a motorcycle, and with no insurance, can walk free following someone's death as a result of his actions. But its ok because the speed limit is 'arbitrary'. I'd love to hear what bullshit went on for the beak to arrive at that decision. Anyway such is the society we live in. Perhaps you think that every train driver who has a suicidal person jump onto the tracks and get squished by his train, should be prosecuted? Train drivers don't "soup-up" their trains.
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 4, 2020 7:40:56 GMT
One thing came to my mind this morning concerning this incident and that is that when I was at bus driving school with ex-London Transport instructors it was drummed into us that a GREEN traffic light does not mean 'GO' but 'PROCEED WITH CAUTION'. I'd say the woman who crossed deliberately against a red light 40%, and the pillock on his 'enhanced' and therefore illegal bike 60% for not giving way to a pedestrian at such a place (even though the pedestrian was stupid) but especially for running away and not bothering to help the woman he's run over, and not bothering to even call an ambulance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 7:53:57 GMT
It is remarkable how people behave at busy pedestrian crossings.
Quite scary actually. I was waiting to cross a busy but fairly slow moving urban road of two lane traffic. There was a woman on phone beside me. She was obviously using my movement to indicate to her when it was safe to cross, during the red man phase. I initiated a leg movement as if to cross the road then decided against it. Said woman immediately started to cross the road and found herself in a dangerous situation between two lanes of moving traffic.
She didn't look at all. Her crossing the road was based entirely on my behaviour while she was engrossed in her phone conversation.
You could easily get someone run over like that by pretending to start walking. Scary shit.
If the pedestrian was the only person there then they will of course look. I suppose the other side of it was as to whether the bicycle was obscured by another vehicle.
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Post by phil70 on Mar 4, 2020 8:04:33 GMT
I think part of the problem is partially due to people's perception where a quick glance tells them "it's just a push bike" and I'll have loads of time to cross in front of them despite the lights being against me. I could maintain 25mph for 10 miles in a time trial also 20mph in a 24 hour race. I had a milk round that covered a lot of miles and the dairy got me a "Town & Country" milk float with an above average 42 cell battery. This gave it a speed of 30mph and it often caught out drivers who saw a milk float and "saw" a slow vehicle.... wrong! Their perception threw them out. I would have used the figures of 30% and 70% in favour of the cyclist but would also say that insurance should be compulsory, it was when I was racing and wasn't expensive Phil
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Post by ianali on Mar 4, 2020 8:09:24 GMT
Although cleared of causing her death, the rider will be found guilty of other offences such as not having a motorbike license etc I think.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 8:59:31 GMT
I wondered about leaving the scene of a serious accident.
Maybe that one does not apply to people on two wheels.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 9:06:57 GMT
Four pages of arguments ... and it appears no one here knows the facts ... that's quite a record Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 4, 2020 9:09:34 GMT
Four pages of arguments ... and it appears no one here knows the facts ... that's quite a record Rog Only four? Seems like hundreds.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 9:13:05 GMT
Perhaps you think that every train driver who has a suicidal person jump onto the tracks and get squished by his train, should be prosecuted? Train drivers don't "soup-up" their trains. I got as far as the final interview to be a train driver about 10 years ago. Apparently the chances of a train driver experiencing someone jumping in front of a train are extremely high during their career. I seem to remember that they try to comfort the driver by explaining that it's the train which killed the jumper, not the driver. Train drivers follow the agreed speed limits most of the time. Trains also take a lot of stopping, something idiots jumping level crossings don't seem to understand
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 9:15:27 GMT
Four pages of arguments ... and it appears no one here knows the facts ... that's quite a record Rog Arguments? Surely forums are all about discussing opinions whether they be right or wrong. If you want facts, read the Daily Mail.
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