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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 9:57:11 GMT
Yes - but it shouldn't be that way - things should be manufactured properly and to last. Every country has sold their peoples down the Swanee in the rush to get rich quick. Not to mention all the British farmers getting grants from the EU and importing thousands of cheap labourers from Eastern Europe rather than paying a decent wage for British people to work on the farms. there's no such thing as should and would .............. as the missus is prone to say - "if ifs and buts were pots and pans there'd be no need for tinkers" (Irish saying)
do you really think that the products of, let's say, the now defunct (and deservedly so) British Leyland would be more long lasting than the components that go to make up nearly everything that you buy today?
do you remember the days when everything was made in Japan and it was considered to be junk? I mean who in hell would buy a Japanese car?
I consider that your attitude smacks of parochialism, 'Little Britain' mentality and economic racism.
.......... and do you really think that Brits would prefer to work in the fields all day instead of sitting at home in their sink estate playing computer games and vandalising the local bus shelter?
We could go back to the days when benefits were minimal and folk were proud to go to work and ashamed of being on the dole. Unfortunately those days are long gone.
PS : please read the WARNING in your attachment - badgers will fuck you all year round. ................ oh! and you need to learn to read - I ain't a badger anyway. Bodging is a traditional British craft. Bodgers were skilled itinerant wood-turners, who worked in the beech woods on the chalk hills of the Chilterns. They cut timber and converted it into chair legs by turning it on a pole lathe, an ancient and very simple tool that uses the spring of a bent sapling to help run it.
The word "benefits" seems to be the wrong approach to me. The welfare state was invented to protect the overly wealthy from the overly poor by taking money from those in between. Like a private security system. And a trap of course. A much better system would be a universal income paid to every citizen from the age of 18. This would result in a much more level society but of course the wealthy, who are "in charge" would not wish this to happen as it may reduce their rapidly increasing levels of personal wealth. Turkeys and Christmas. My mum's version was "if ifs and ands were pots and pans there'd be no work for the tinker". Rhymes better than "if ifs and buts were pots and pans".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 10:28:36 GMT
the thing which really matters is whether that power has good or bad intentions. Remind me what was that road to Hell was paved with again? As this crisis is already proving, it's the great work and effort people like the NHS, teachers, carers, street workers, farmers, delivery drivers, shop workers and many others are doing which is good. But how much harder would things be for all of us if all this happened as a result of very bad intentions? We could all be wiped out in seconds. Good intentions are never worse than bad intentions regardless of old phrases. People DOING things to help others is much better. The full saying apparently is "Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works" (not biblical according to WiKi). Anyone can be good meaning or bad meaning at any point in time. It's a choice. Follow greed, or your heart.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 10:49:07 GMT
there's no such thing as should and would .............. as the missus is prone to say - "if ifs and buts were pots and pans there'd be no need for tinkers" (Irish saying)
do you really think that the products of, let's say, the now defunct (and deservedly so) British Leyland would be more long lasting than the components that go to make up nearly everything that you buy today?
do you remember the days when everything was made in Japan and it was considered to be junk? I mean who in hell would buy a Japanese car?
I consider that your attitude smacks of parochialism, 'Little Britain' mentality and economic racism.
.......... and do you really think that Brits would prefer to work in the fields all day instead of sitting at home in their sink estate playing computer games and vandalising the local bus shelter?
We could go back to the days when benefits were minimal and folk were proud to go to work and ashamed of being on the dole. Unfortunately those days are long gone.
PS : please read the WARNING in your attachment - badgers will fuck you all year round. ................ oh! and you need to learn to read - I ain't a badger anyway. Bodging is a traditional British craft. Bodgers were skilled itinerant wood-turners, who worked in the beech woods on the chalk hills of the Chilterns. They cut timber and converted it into chair legs by turning it on a pole lathe, an ancient and very simple tool that uses the spring of a bent sapling to help run it.
The welfare state was invented to protect the overly wealthy from the overly poor by taking money from those in between. Like a private security system. And a trap of course. A much better system would be a universal income paid to every citizen from the age of 18. Yes, I've always thought the defeat of Churchill's conservative government by Attlee in the 1945 election was a masterstroke of such towering elegance and cunning on the part of the elite ruling minority. Several of the foremost technocrats of our time have voiced support for the notion of universal income. Their desire is that the universal income system will be implemented by the artificial intelligence that will take over the world prior to it exterminating the human race. Obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 10:54:28 GMT
It would make an interesting study after this outbreak of Covid 19 has passed to investigate if poverty contributed to the probability of death.
Obviously some rich (and poor) people can completely self isolate in very comfortable surroundings but it seems there have been some well known celebrities, which usually means good money, dying as well.
Is it a disease which disproportionately kills poorer people, or maybe not.
I suppose it would be tricky to get hold of the data but it also raises the question on how much demographic information governments do in fact hold on an individual level.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:19:02 GMT
Remind me what was that road to Hell was paved with again? As this crisis is already proving, it's the great work and effort people like the NHS, teachers, carers, street workers, farmers, delivery drivers, shop workers and many others are doing which is good. But how much harder would things be for all of us if all this happened as a result of very bad intentions? We could all be wiped out in seconds. Good intentions are never worse than bad intentions regardless of old phrases. People DOING things to help others is much better. The full saying apparently is "Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works" (not biblical according to WiKi). Anyone can be good meaning or bad meaning at any point in time. It's a choice. Follow greed, or your heart. Good words...Waving, not drowning.
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Post by lollygagger on Apr 2, 2020 11:20:59 GMT
It would make an interesting study after this outbreak of Covid 19 has passed to investigate if poverty contributed to the probability of death. Obviously some rich (and poor) people can completely self isolate in very comfortable surroundings but it seems there have been some well known celebrities, which usually means good money, dying as well. Is it a disease which disproportionately kills poorer people, or maybe not. I suppose it would be tricky to get hold of the data but it also raises the question on how much demographic information governments do in fact hold on an individual level. Demographic data only confirms the patently obvious to those requiring figures to back up their decisions. Personal data - I feel sorry for anyone having to spend a few seconds considering it before moving on to the next ultimately boring and useless data set. I even feel sorry it's clogging up memory banks somewhere that computers have to waste nano seconds discarding it, what a pointless exercise. People? There is no shortage of poor, middling or well off people and it's been a buyers market since we recovered from the last world war. An excess of benefit clingers* was overcome with more efficient imports. Celebrities - air kissing/meet and greet/being seen at the right parties... Oops. *No disrespect, it's a reasonably well paid career decision / trap if you have no skills.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:22:15 GMT
My mum wrote "not waving but drowning" on her suicide note.
I've never seen it written the other way around.
She didn't actually drown in the end, so it was merely a figure of speech.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:24:23 GMT
It would make an interesting study after this outbreak of Covid 19 has passed to investigate if poverty contributed to the probability of death. Obviously some rich (and poor) people can completely self isolate in very comfortable surroundings but it seems there have been some well known celebrities, which usually means good money, dying as well. Is it a disease which disproportionately kills poorer people, or maybe not. I suppose it would be tricky to get hold of the data but it also raises the question on how much demographic information governments do in fact hold on an individual level. Demographic data only confirms the patently obvious to those requiring figures to back up their decisions. Personal data - I feel sorry for anyone having to spend a few seconds considering it before moving on to the next ultimately boring and useless data set. I even feel sorry it's clogging up memory banks somewhere that computers have to waste nano seconds discarding it, what a pointless exercise. People? There is no shortage of poor, middling or well off people and it's been a buyers market since we recovered from the last world war. An excess of benefit clingers* was overcome with more efficient imports. Celebrities - air kissing/meet and greet/being seen at the right parties... Oops. *No disrespect, it's a reasonably well paid career decision / trap if you have no skills. I'm not interested in actually doing the numbers myself and agree that being statistician would probably be a bit boring but it's interesting to consider whether this disease discriminates based on wealth. I mean in human terms. I guess the true picture will come out once it starts getting into "undeveloped" countries. I've got a funny feeling that it might actually have less effect in "undeveloped" countries.
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Post by kris on Apr 2, 2020 11:24:24 GMT
It would make an interesting study after this outbreak of Covid 19 has passed to investigate if poverty contributed to the probability of death. Obviously some rich (and poor) people can completely self isolate in very comfortable surroundings but it seems there have been some well known celebrities, which usually means good money, dying as well. Is it a disease which disproportionately kills poorer people, or maybe not. I suppose it would be tricky to get hold of the data but it also raises the question on how much demographic information governments do in fact hold on an individual level. I would have thought that it would be a fact that poverty is a key factor in if you live or die with any killer disease. So I can’t imagine covid19 being any different.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:28:17 GMT
My mum wrote "not waving but drowning" on her suicide note. I've never seen it written the other way around. She didn't actually drown in the end, so it was merely a figure of speech. Yes, it's a more positve rendition of the famous line... (sorry about your Mum's despair, I hope that now there is so much more help available it means others can wave and not drown x )
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Post by JohnV on Apr 2, 2020 11:30:30 GMT
I have a horrible feeling that we might have those figures in the not to distant future.
reply to Kris' post
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:30:57 GMT
Remind me what was that road to Hell was paved with again? Good intentions are never worse than bad intentions regardless of old phrases. People DOING things to help others is much better. The full saying apparently is "Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works" (not biblical according to WiKi). An intention is not a deed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:32:56 GMT
It would make an interesting study after this outbreak of Covid 19 has passed to investigate if poverty contributed to the probability of death. Obviously some rich (and poor) people can completely self isolate in very comfortable surroundings but it seems there have been some well known celebrities, which usually means good money, dying as well. Is it a disease which disproportionately kills poorer people, or maybe not. I suppose it would be tricky to get hold of the data but it also raises the question on how much demographic information governments do in fact hold on an individual level. I would have thought that it would be a fact that poverty is a key factor in if you live or die with any killer disease. So I can’t imagine covid19 being any different. I was just thinking that groups of people who have always lived in relative poverty might actually know what to do about this sort of thing and possibly have a better survival rate.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 2, 2020 11:36:49 GMT
Well, little Greta did say that we needed to address global warming, and everybody applauded this wise sage but as soon as Mother Nature pops up and says "Ok Greta, I've got just the thing to give you a hand with that" those same people started crapping themselves.
Come to think of it, she's been very quiet of late.
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Post by lollygagger on Apr 2, 2020 11:37:30 GMT
Demographic data only confirms the patently obvious to those requiring figures to back up their decisions. Personal data - I feel sorry for anyone having to spend a few seconds considering it before moving on to the next ultimately boring and useless data set. I even feel sorry it's clogging up memory banks somewhere that computers have to waste nano seconds discarding it, what a pointless exercise. People? There is no shortage of poor, middling or well off people and it's been a buyers market since we recovered from the last world war. An excess of benefit clingers* was overcome with more efficient imports. Celebrities - air kissing/meet and greet/being seen at the right parties... Oops. *No disrespect, it's a reasonably well paid career decision / trap if you have no skills. I'm not interested in actually doing the numbers myself and agree that being statistician would probably be a bit boring but it's interesting to consider whether this disease discriminates based on wealth. I mean in human terms. I guess the true picture will come out once it starts getting into "undeveloped" countries. I've got a funny feeling that it might actually have less effect in "undeveloped" countries. If India count and are typical they are doing what everyone else is but a bit more clumsily - telling people to stay put and clear of each other in one breath and telling them to sprint for home in the next, in India's case 1 million weekly commuters got 4 hours warning, buses and trains overwhelmed even with new services put on and the majority left to walk up to 100 miles home. That should slow the spread! Economically I believe India has a significant proportion of people living hand to mouth so being told not to work is ridiculous.
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