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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2020 22:18:42 GMT
James who lives in London filters his water that is collected from the roof, he manages 8 months of the year with no issues, its a complex filtering system but is drinkable at the end. My widebeam hold a couple of thousand litres of water 2 x cubic meters] under the front deck and that can last a long time with a bit of care. As Nick says water points are plentiful and most Narrowboats have enough for the week [my last one did], if I was considering CCing I would do water collection before trying to clean up canal water
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 22:20:05 GMT
I think the thing is that if you live on a boat you have to get over the idea that a shower and a change of clothes is something you have to have every day. ... When you live aboard you quickly learn to treat everything as a precious resource, not just water but the means of heating it too. This is my point with the filtration thing - previously everyone had to accept that there wasn't enough water for a normal shower every day (or to wash clothes maybe)- but maybe that has now changed? Maybe the availability of unlimited clean water means you can adopt more of the habits you would in a house? Imagine someone put it you as a question- e.g. I can give you the option to have a hot shower or bath every single day on your boat, without ever worrying about running out of water, for an outlay of maybe £200. You'd jump at the chance, especially in the horrible sweaty height of summer we've been having. My only worry is how safe it all is, so I'm deffo going to see what else I can dig up, safety etc. But even if its only safe for bathing, that'll do for me I totally agree that even if water is freely available that doesn't mean it should be wasted. But if you only need say 5ah of battery to collect 25 litres of fresh water, you can at least be a bit more liberal with it maybe?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 14, 2020 22:27:24 GMT
I think the thing is that if you live on a boat you have to get over the idea that a shower and a change of clothes is something you have to have every day. ... When you live aboard you quickly learn to treat everything as a precious resource, not just water but the means of heating it too. Maybe the availability of unlimited clean water means you can adopt more of the habits you would in a house? Imagine someone put it you as a question- e.g. I can give you the option to have a hot shower or bath every single day on your boat, without ever worrying about running out of water, for an outlay of maybe £200. You'd jump at the chance, especially in the horrible sweaty height of summer we've been having. Well, the thing is that in nearly six years of owning my boat, of which I've spent the last four years as a liveaboard, I've never once run out of water.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 22:31:27 GMT
I think a lot of the concerns raised here- and quite fairly to be honest- are not about whether you would prefer unlimited water wherever you are, but whether it can be filtered safely from a canal. Can it be done safely? I'm never going to claim I know bugger all about it at this point- you folks have years of experience of all this, and you understand the many different issues with water better than any newbie. But that said, if there was a way to prove medically- beyond any doubt- that canal water can be turned into safe drinking water, and for a few hundred quid, I do think many boaters would consider that option. I haven't see it myself yet, but I have a suspicion- as Mulder and Scully almost said- that the proof is out there.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 14, 2020 22:34:41 GMT
There must be a reason why it isn't a standard fitment on narrowboats.
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Post by phil70 on Apr 14, 2020 23:32:47 GMT
Those of you who remember Paul of Nulife42 lived aboard a wide beam SeaOtter and filtered all his water. He fell out of love with boating and bought a twin axle Land Yacht and transferred his filtration system to his camper and collects rain from the roof or if it's been dry he scoops water out of any old pond or dyke. He is as fit as a butchers dog so it does work. Phil
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Post by patty on Apr 15, 2020 1:25:39 GMT
Dunno if I'd be keen seeing and hearing what goes into canals but each to their own. Guess bathing in it is one thing but drinking..no wouldn't not even with filtration..I know there are systems that work but once u have seen bloated sheep floating in the canal you cannot un see
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Post by JohnV on Apr 15, 2020 5:55:24 GMT
I think some canals the water quality is so low as to raise problems for the life of the filters. There are other areas where I suspect it is quite practical.
It is something that I have been starting to consider as where I am the water supply is courtesy of a factory unit nearby but long term continuity might be a problem (and re-filling at the moment is not possible as they have closed down) I have water for careful use for at least a further 5 or 6 weeks but after that I might have a problem. (moving to the nearest available waterpoint will involve several bridge lifts and I am not sure if they have the manpower at the moment)
My initial investigations had been coming up with 4 figure amounts but I have really only just started looking (I live on a river and although under flood conditions the water is very dirty it is normally quite clear)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 6:52:09 GMT
If you intend to travel on your boat around the system, filling with water will not be a problem ... taps are fairly plentiful ... our tank is 250 litres and we top up as we pass any tap, so it's rarely more than a ten minute job (we don't have a washing machine).
Trying to approach living on a boat to make it like living in a house is doing things the wrong way round and may be bound to fail, in my view.
For me, the point about boating ... the things we love ... are the life style changes it enforces on you.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 7:23:29 GMT
I think some canals the water quality is so low as to raise problems for the life of the filters. There are other areas where I suspect it is quite practical. It is something that I have been starting to consider as where I am the water supply is courtesy of a factory unit nearby but long term continuity might be a problem (and re-filling at the moment is not possible as they have closed down) I have water for careful use for at least a further 5 or 6 weeks but after that I might have a problem. (moving to the nearest available waterpoint will involve several bridge lifts and I am not sure if they have the manpower at the moment) My initial investigations had been coming up with 4 figure amounts but I have really only just started looking (I live on a river and although under flood conditions the water is very dirty it is normally quite clear) I think there is clearly a problem with the credibility of the idea that canal water could ever be safely treated enough to drink, and I share that lack of belief myself tbh. And even if it was proven medically safe, most people would still be put off by thinking of where it cam from. Ive only had to empty a toilet cassette a handful of times in my life, and each time I felt as if I was near to vomiting, what with the thought of my deadly cargo turning my blood to ice, and the horrendous smell of the elsan points themselves. But that was just me being an illogical and pathetic wuss- focusing too much on the unpleasant nature of the job. If I could have somehow disabled my nose for a few minutes, and not actually spent so much time panicking about my cargo as if it were a radioactive waste container, the job would have been no problem at all. I think water from canals has a similar 'image' problem, in that when offered a glass of this water, people would find themselves focussing on images of where it came from, and pondering the glass warily for a very long time before taking that first sip. But if done properly, it is safe. People are around the world are regularly drinking treated recycled water, some of which is essentially a type of sewage. The proof is there- it can be done safely. The question I still have is this- is it still safe when I use a water treatment kit from Joe Bloggs online emporium? Where is the evidence of meeting water standards? So in my mind there is still some digging around to be done, and considerable amount of convincing (of myself). I'm not sure I can ever see the day when I would swallow down a chilled glass of filtered canal water with any great degree of relish. I think there would always be a slightly raised eyebrow, and a crossing of fingers, as the glass approached my lips. And for that reason I think that even if proven safe, I would look at a way of adapting the kit so that it only supplied the bathroom. That makes it a bigger faff, because you'd need a separate bathroom tank of at least 30-50 litres, maybe more if you like big baths rather than showers. So the main tank would continue to be used for cooking and drinking, and would thus last for maybe a month, even with not being particularly frugal. That water would probably be dirtier than the filtered canal water, but that wouldn't matter somehow. Having unlimited water could be really useful at some times, e.g during closures, freeze-ins, or when the nearest water point is at the top of a big flight of locks and there's a queue of boats. I dont know- I can only guess obviously- you guys are the experts. But I'm interested enough to try a kit, if I can find any evidence of the safety being proven etc. This is one of the ones I've looked at - its about £310 including a pump, and you'd need to buy and install a bigger holding tank to collect enough for a couple of showers. I think it can filter 150-200 litres an hour. Not faff-free, but a lot cheaper than getting a man to install a custom system I would think. If it works, I'll deffo post some pictures etc to show the details. If it doesnt, I'll probably be dead or vomiting into a canal somewhere in the midlands. waterfilterstore.co.uk/products/6-stage-ultra-violet-reverse-osmosis-water-filter-systemwl?variant=33048402231341
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 7:44:41 GMT
If you intend to travel on your boat around the system, filling with water will not be a problem ... taps are fairly plentiful ... our tank is 250 litres and we top up as we pass any tap, so it's rarely more than a ten minute job (we don't have a washing machine). Trying to approach living on a boat to make it like living in a house is doing things the wrong way round and may be bound to fail, in my view. For me, the point about boating ... the things we love ... are the life style changes it enforces on you. Rog Hi Rog- I do get your point about not trying to create some kind of lavish lifestyle in a narrowboat, or to emulate living in a semi-detached urban dwelling, and I agree that part of the attraction is the physicality of the lifestyle, and the challenges it throws up. Being more aware of water and energy usage is a responsible way to live as well. So there is a limit to how far I would even want to go in pursuing a more comfortable lifestyle, and I dont ever want to live in a super-luxurious widebeam barge that has essentially the same functions as a house. I'm ok with building a solid fuel fire in the mornings, dealing with the ash (a future question), managing toilet issues via whatever system the boat has (several future questions), going back to a whistling kettle on a hob, and being able to almost touch both walls of my home at once. That is what makes it different, and special. But this is one area where I am just wondering if there is an easy improvement that would make life a bit more comfortable. Its entirely possible that living with the challenges of boat life, I'll regress to a grunting neanderthal by Christmas , take to wearing animal skins, and refuse to ever shower again- so extra water might not even be a thing anymore. If I'm honest, I suspect that by a month into the new boat (hopefully Sept), I'll be too busy worrying about making the existing systems work to bother with a new water kit. But just out of interest, I would recommend having a quick look at Alan Denmans video anyway.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 15, 2020 7:49:35 GMT
I think some canals the water quality is so low as to raise problems for the life of the filters. There are other areas where I suspect it is quite practical. It is something that I have been starting to consider as where I am the water supply is courtesy of a factory unit nearby but long term continuity might be a problem (and re-filling at the moment is not possible as they have closed down) I have water for careful use for at least a further 5 or 6 weeks but after that I might have a problem. (moving to the nearest available waterpoint will involve several bridge lifts and I am not sure if they have the manpower at the moment) My initial investigations had been coming up with 4 figure amounts but I have really only just started looking (I live on a river and although under flood conditions the water is very dirty it is normally quite clear) waterfilterstore.co.uk/products/6-stage-ultra-violet-reverse-osmosis-water-filter-systemwl?variant=33048402231341 just been reading through your link and I notice that system employs a UV filter as well as particulate filters. That is interesting as when reading spec for Calmag filters (RS pro filter) which does not have a UV stage, it states that for unknown grade water further filtration is required. Thanks for that it takes me a step further
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Post by JohnV on Apr 15, 2020 7:54:41 GMT
If you intend to travel on your boat around the system, filling with water will not be a problem ... taps are fairly plentiful ... our tank is 250 litres and we top up as we pass any tap, so it's rarely more than a ten minute job (we don't have a washing machine). Trying to approach living on a boat to make it like living in a house is doing things the wrong way round and may be bound to fail, in my view. For me, the point about boating ... the things we love ... are the life style changes it enforces on you. Rog Its entirely possible that living with the challenges of boat life, I'll regress to a grunting neanderthal by Christmas , take to wearing animal skins, and refuse to ever shower again- so extra water might not even be a thing anymore. eau de narrowboater a perfume discussed in detail a couple of years back consensus was that it was mostly a mixture of diesel, wood smoke and beer
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Post by quaysider on Apr 15, 2020 7:55:14 GMT
I have to admit, that when I began my plans for 'Ellis', I DID look at the filtration systems briefly... the idea was good but at the time, the cost and power drain would have been too high.
When you are in the planning stage, your brain is constantly wanting to improve on what already exists.... once you get the boat, it clicks in to "why re-invent the wheel" sort of approach...
Given we KNOW already the water we take out of a tap has already passed through god knows how many peoples bodies, god knows how many times, I'd not worry about drinking properly filtered and uv de-bugged water... it's already happening by the water companies with filthy water anyway - we just dont see it.
That said, filling up from a tap is not great shakes - AND at the moment, "moving to get water" is the only thing we can do without being demonized for breaking the "request not to move" by CRT... the fact the nearest tap might be 3 miles away and involve a couple more miles to get to a winding hole , is surely a positive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 8:02:51 GMT
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