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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 17, 2020 20:53:32 GMT
There is something to be said for an instant water heater like a Morco. Yes they use a fair bit of gas but they are very effective units. Can't say we've noticed that ours uses 'a fair bit of gas'. We don't have the pilot on when it's not in use. Can't complain about our Morco, has been fine for the past 6 years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:56:50 GMT
There is something to be said for an instant water heater like a Morco. Yes they use a fair bit of gas but they are very effective units. Can't say we've noticed that ours uses 'a fair bit of gas'. We don't have the pilot on when it's not in use. Can't complain about our Morco, has been fine for the past 6 years. I suppose should mention small children and bath on boat and mad woman situation.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 17, 2020 20:56:52 GMT
There is something to be said for an instant water heater like a Morco. Yes they use a fair bit of gas but they are very effective units. That plus a calorifier off the engine / diesel heater, with correct valve system, works nicely. It basically means you can have as much hot water as you like when you want it. If you like hot water availability then this is actually quite a valuable asset. You do have to be careful with design because an instant water heater raises the temperature of the input water by X degrees. So if you had a calorifier which then fed the water heater you can end up with boiling water coming out of taps. Not very nice in the shower. The narrow boat I previously lived on for 12 years had a Paloma and engine calorifier. At first I did have some problems but as it was cruising most days I never really used the Paloma. More recently I have been stuck on a mooring with woman and children in a barge and our main water heating is a Morco. We do have electric etc but still the Morco is the best solution. In demand. This may be related to having a woman about. What i'm picking up is that its a good idea to have a contigency method for things like hot water in case one fails 1. kettle on top of stove 2. heat big pot of water on gas cooker -warm water in 1.5 litre bottles, pour them over yourself in the shower, works fine (actually better than you might think, we did that recently when our water pump packed up).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:57:49 GMT
Hozeloc pressurised hanging basket watering unit is quite good too.
For socially distant showering which is apparently healthy.
Or a fire extinguisher in a camp fire.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 17, 2020 20:58:26 GMT
Our boat has 3 ways to heat water. The engine, an immersion heater, and a Mikuni (that also runs some radiators). Definitely a bad idea to operate the immersion heater from batteries, because far more engine running is needed to recharge the batteries than it would have taken to heat the water with a combination of engine running to directly heat the water, and engine running to power the immersion heater. The latter presumes a decent alternator or Travelpower, of course. We can power the immersion either using electricity generated by the alternator (175A) or the Travelpower (3.5kw). If you are buying an old boat, it is unlikely that the alternator can produce that much power. Live aboard folk often have instantaneous gas water heaters, Morco, Paloma, Rinnai etc Thanks Telemachus, I wasn't clear that the immersion heater would totally cane the batteries, so that's one daft experiment I wont end up trying. I'd love a boat with diesel central heating tbh, as an extra option for hot water and for the odd time I need heat for just an hour or so, without having to build a fire. But I'm not seeing diesel CH on most boats; I guess because its pretty expensive. So what sort of generator would one need to power an immersion heater, if one wanted to save running the engine? And can you still buy a travelpower? I think quite a lot of more recent boats have a Mikuni/eberspacher/webasto diesel heater as secondary heating. They are not particularly expensive. But exactly what percentage, not sure. As you say, useful for the spring and autumn to give a bit of heat in the mornings/evenings when having the stove lit all day isn’t desirable, as well as hot water. A generator typically runs on petrol, which is relatively dangerous to store on a boat. And not always easy to get petrol canalside. Generators can be very noisy, and they all produce carbon monoxide. Far better IMO to have decent electrical generation from the main engine. You can still get Travelpowers but they have to have the right fittings including the right additional poly-V pulley on the crankshaft. Normally really only feasible if the TravelPower is installed by the engine mariniser when new. At the very least I’d want a decent alternator, preferably two. With a v belt the practical limit is around 90- 100A, anything more you need a poly-v belt (with associated pulley).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:58:37 GMT
I'm old enough to retire Mr Fox, although a bit early. OK - good to see you have the chance to enjoy boating for 20 years or so. And good to see you researching. We've had our boat 6 years now and am still learning - I still haven't had time to have a good look at what we bought, we have been too busy travelling round the country with it. If of any interest, I wrote a guide on how to use our boat, a guide for visitors - might be some tips for you in it? Send a PM (personal message) if you're interested, and I'll send you my e-mail and the guide as a WORD file. Thanks very much Mr Fox, I'll do that. The way I see it, you can never get enough info when you're starting out living on a boat
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:04:20 GMT
At the very least I’d want a decent alternator, preferably two. With a v belt the practical limit is around 90- 100A, anything more you need a poly-v belt (with associated pulley). Or double v belts but the multi ribbed / poly v ones are better. My Beta 90 which I bought new and put in the barge in 2011 has a 175a 12v on a multi ribbed belt and the smaller 70a 12v on a normal v belt. Fitted by Beta. Seems okay. If adding high power belt driven items to the front end of the engine later on you need to be 101% on the pulley arrangements. And I don't like the idea of using main engine to heat water electrically. But that's just a personal feeling.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 17, 2020 21:09:20 GMT
Apparently the BS situation is that if the instant water heater only goes to one faucet then it doesn't need an external flue. More than one outlet then it needs a flue and a draught diverter. This is technically interesting if you only want on-demand hot water for the shower. This is what I was told by someone it could be wrong. My Morco had a flue on it and the correct external terminal. No, if the device is supplying a shower or bath, it needs an external flue. Ditto if it’s installed in a bathroom. So it only doesn’t need a flue if it’s supplying eg a kitchen tap. But in my opinion it would be pretty foolish to have a water heater without a flue. Apart from the CO risk, lots of water vapour is produced by burning gas and you are just going to fill the boat with damp air.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:12:29 GMT
Yes I thought it was just one outlet rather than specially one tap.
It is a bit naff not to have a flue on an inland boat. The regulation in the BS scheme seems to be an allowance for seagoing boats which for obvious reasons need to be capable of being sealed to avoid water ingress in heavy weather. The flimsy flues usually associated with instant water heaters would become a problem quite quickly in heavy weather.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 17, 2020 21:14:13 GMT
At the very least I’d want a decent alternator, preferably two. With a v belt the practical limit is around 90- 100A, anything more you need a poly-v belt (with associated pulley). Or double v belts but the multi ribbed / poly v ones are better. My Beta 90 which I bought new and put in the barge in 2011 has a 175a 12v on a multi ribbed belt and the smaller 70a 12v on a normal v belt. Fitted by Beta. Seems okay. If adding high power belt driven items to the front end of the engine later on you need to be 101% on the pulley arrangements. And I don't like the idea of using main engine to heat water electrically. But that's just a personal feeling. Yes similar arrangement in our Beta 43 except we have a third pulley / alternator which is the travelpower. And the small engine alternator is 45 A. Not sure why one would dislike using the main engine to heat water electrically? Although we don’t often have days without cruising, when we do I run the engine with the immersion on. That is a drain of around 100A from the 175A alternator, or 1kw from the 3.5kw travelpower. So not stressing the electrics. The additional load on the engine helps to warm it up quickly and running Diesel engines from cold lightly loaded, isn’t very good for them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:18:50 GMT
I'm one of those people who does not like to run the main engine unless moving.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 17, 2020 21:20:16 GMT
I'm one of those people who does not like to run the main engine unless moving. Oh I see, fair enough, and you do have a big one (no tittering).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:23:57 GMT
I've got quite a few big ones actually. No it's always been my way of thinking since I first got onto boats. I blame my long term older man boyfriend who was too influencial on me when I was younger. He never managed to turn me but he's still trying at 74, after 28 years only yesterday he was chatting me up something rotten again. He always told me you don't want to run the engine for that sort of thing. Keep it for when going along. I do agree with this philosophy, it just seems sensible.
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Post by Trina on Apr 17, 2020 21:52:10 GMT
When we're on the move-the engine heats the water.When we're not on the move & plugged in at the marina-our immersion is switched on.If we're not on the move & not in the marina-we often run the engine but sometimes use the immersion.We do not usually smell.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:55:38 GMT
I've got quite a few big ones actually. No it's always been my way of thinking since I first got onto boats. I blame my long term older man boyfriend who was too influencial on me when I was younger. He never managed to turn me but he's still trying at 74, after 28 years only yesterday he was chatting me up something rotten again. He always told me you don't want to run the engine for that sort of thing. Keep it for when going along. I do agree with this philosophy, it just seems sensible. When I was young and innocent I only ever fell prey to an older suitor if I really wanted to. Which to be fair was pretty much any time they asked. But can I ask this- is there a balance to be struck with running the engine to get power? In theory it is a sound principle to only use the engine to drive the boat (if nothing else it reduces wear), and I've heard that running diesels without a proper load on them (i.e. actually driving the boat) can affect their longevity. But, on the other hand there seem to be lots of 15 year old boats that still seem to be going ok with 10-20k hours, which is a fair bit when compared to age and running hours in road vehicles. So how worried would be people be, if looking at a boat with say 15,000 hours, knowing that probably 60% of those hours were not actually cruising? My worry on this is that new engines are so hideously expensive (what with fitting costs it might be £7k, or more?) that the boat you thought was a good price could suddenly become a money pit and give you a bill that financially knocks you sideways for two years. I'm sure there's no genuine logic in this, but for me its the hull and the engine bits that worry me most. It seems like most other things can be sorted out at a cost you might be able to afford, but if the engine dies or the hull has major problems, the dream boat could become a nightmare.
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