Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 10:27:49 GMT
RE engines, a rule of thumb is the fewer the cylinders the more the vibration and thus the unpleasantness running it while stationary. So a modern three or four cylinder model is perhaps better in some respects, another being that it will be water-cooled so you can use it to produce hot water as well. The one everybody seems to desire these days is a Beta engine based on a Kubota lump (Beta don't make their own engines, they modify someone else's). With regard to the usefulness of a second-hand engine and the state of the hull, get a survey. Ignore comments such as 'it was looked at last year and everything was fine so...' If you find your dream boat but the surveyor says the engine is junk, despair not. Its a great position to talk the price down from. And after talking about boats, discussions about engines are always popular in these parts. engines.apolloduck.co.uk/brands.phtml
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 10:30:01 GMT
I fitted a Paloma to my boat all those years ago. The flue kit cost about £20.00 at the time and the install minus the gas and water pipes took less than a day. All that was needed for the job was a drill, a jigsaw, a screwdriver and a spanner or two. Easy peasy. The BS test did not then exist but being nervous about gas I had a qualified gentleman take a look. He commented that he had never seen a better job. Which was nice. ETA Would I do it myself again? Absolutely, but getting it signed off is of course compulsory these days. Not a big deal though. Getting it signed of is compulsory? Well actually that was an assumption based on just about every other bloody thing these days. I don't mind if I'm wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 10:32:54 GMT
We have a late model paloma I do not know if this is true of false but it is an important point: we have been told that you are no longer allowed to fit a gas-fired instant water heater into a boat, unless there has been one in the boat before. All I know is that I think our system is very good - no complaints from me for the design/idea. Works fine. And I would buy another 'Morco' is our was to pack up. You can smell gas if there is a small leak. There is a valve on the gas pipe leading to our Morco, close to it, and there is a gas valve in the cratch so we can turn that off if there's a problem, from inside. There is also a valve on the gas pipe leading to our gas cooker. When we leave the boat for a day or longer, we turn the valve off at the bottle neck. I don’t think that’s true. Can you cite any reference? If you are building a new boat in accordance with the recreational craft directive, it specifies that you can only fit a gas instant water heater that is specifically approved (by the manufacturer) for installation in boats. I think the Morco F11 complies, it’s room sealed but expensive. The BSS doesn’t seem to have an opinion on it.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 18, 2020 10:33:34 GMT
I never run my engine apart from the darkest 3-4 months of the year. 375w solar, a Morco water heater and gas fridge sees to that. A bottle of gas only lasts 5 weeks but that's a good trade, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 10:37:11 GMT
Getting it signed of is compulsory? Well actually that was an assumption based on just about every other bloody thing these days. I don't mind if I'm wrong. As I understand it, once you have a BSS, you are not supposed to make significant changes that might create a BSS fail. If you do make significant changes, they should be checked. It would be a bit like taking your car for MOT with borrowed wheels, then next day putting you own bald tyres back on! But how many people actually get the BSS man back following some work? Not many, I’d suggest!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 10:40:41 GMT
Well actually that was an assumption based on just about every other bloody thing these days. I don't mind if I'm wrong. As I understand it, once you have a BSS, you are not supposed to make significant changes that might create a BSS fail. If you do make significant changes, they should be checked. It would be a bit like taking your car for MOT with borrowed wheels, then next day putting you own bald tyres back on! But how many people actually get the BSS man back following some work? Not many, I’d suggest! I guess a lot would depend on the BSS examiner. I hear some are nicer than others. Being on the doorstep of such a person seems to help (so they don't have far to go)!
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Apr 18, 2020 10:41:19 GMT
I do not know if this is true of false but it is an important point: we have been told that you are no longer allowed to fit a gas-fired instant water heater into a boat, unless there has been one in the boat before. All I know is that I think our system is very good - no complaints from me for the design/idea. Works fine. And I would buy another 'Morco' is our was to pack up. You can smell gas if there is a small leak. There is a valve on the gas pipe leading to our Morco, close to it, and there is a gas valve in the cratch so we can turn that off if there's a problem, from inside. There is also a valve on the gas pipe leading to our gas cooker. When we leave the boat for a day or longer, we turn the valve off at the bottle neck. I don’t think that’s true. Can you cite any reference? If you are building a new boat in accordance with the recreational craft directive, it specifies that you can only fit a gas instant water heater that is specifically approved (by the manufacturer) for installation in boats. I think the Morco F11 complies, it’s room sealed but expensive. The BSS doesn’t seem to have an opinion on it. No, I can't. I've read it or heard it somewhere, and it stuck in my mind, as I remember thinking "that's OK for us, then, as we had one to start with". As I said, I don't know if there's any truth in it. But worth checking, I suppose.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:05:02 GMT
Just remember the more complex things are generally the more complex the solution.
Says the man who now has to remove the domestic alternator belt + the travel power belt just to simply replace the starter/water pump belt, all whilst pretty much being upside down in a confined very uncomfortable position! I hate boats occasionally...
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 11:20:45 GMT
I don’t think that’s true. Can you cite any reference? If you are building a new boat in accordance with the recreational craft directive, it specifies that you can only fit a gas instant water heater that is specifically approved (by the manufacturer) for installation in boats. I think the Morco F11 complies, it’s room sealed but expensive. The BSS doesn’t seem to have an opinion on it. No, I can't. I've read it or heard it somewhere, and it stuck in my mind, as I remember thinking "that's OK for us, then, as we had one to start with". As I said, I don't know if there's any truth in it. But worth checking, I suppose. You might be thinking of gas fridges. As far as I know there are no gas fridges which are approved by the manufacturer for use on boats.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:26:49 GMT
Just remember the more complex things are generally the more complex the solution.
Says the man who now has to remove the domestic alternator belt + the travel power belt just to simply replace the starter/water pump belt, all whilst pretty much being upside down in a confined very uncomfortable position! I hate boats occasionally...
Not sure why you call it the starter belt. Why did it need replacing?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:30:01 GMT
I think its a real shame that Morco style water heaters seem to have gone out of fashion. A new Morco install is effectively out of my scope, unless there's one already installed- but so far I've seen very few used boats with gas water heaters, in the price range I've been looking at. I can't help but wonder about the thousands of boaters who used gas water heaters without flues for decades, and what the total fatalities figure was from gas heaters. I would bet it was a tiny handful. In my old job the regulatory people were constantly coming up with new rules, or new additions and complications to existing rules, just in order to justify their job role. I think sometimes if you set up a bunch of people to regulate a safety issue, they eventually start to try reducing all risks to zero, regardless of how much it strangles the process of people doing the actual work. I appreciate times move on and we no longer accept running risks that were considered acceptable in say the 70s, but I think the rule makers have been given their head, and they are not interested in common sense.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:32:16 GMT
Just remember the more complex things are generally the more complex the solution.
Says the man who now has to remove the domestic alternator belt + the travel power belt just to simply replace the starter/water pump belt, all whilst pretty much being upside down in a confined very uncomfortable position! I hate boats occasionally...
Not sure why you call it the starter belt. Why did it need replacing? Stater battery alternator (+water pump) belt is probably better.
The belt snapped - probably should have changed it a while ago but I'm sort of in the 'if it aint broke, leave it alone' camp.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:34:07 GMT
I was at college studying marine engineering in 1996 when the BS scheme started gearing up. They did a 2 week course £1375 anyone could do it then they were a BS examiner.
Like a prat I didn't do the course. I saw all sorts of people coming to do it many of them without any marine background at all.
This has since changed and there is cpd and background requirements are required for new examiners but initially it caused problems for a lot of boaters.
Clueless idiots who have simply passed a two week course being put in a position of being allowed to tell you your boat is illegal.
Oh dear.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 11:34:57 GMT
I think its a real shame that Morco style water heaters seem to have gone out of fashion. A new Morco install is effectively out of my scope, unless there's one already installed- but so far I've seen very few used boats with gas water heaters, in the price range I've been looking at. I can't help but wonder about the thousands of boaters who used gas water heaters without flues for decades, and what the total fatalities figure was from gas heaters. I would bet it was a tiny handful. In my old job the regulatory people were constantly coming up with new rules, or new additions and complications to existing rules, just in order to justify their job role. I think sometimes if you set up a bunch of people to regulate a safety issue, they eventually start to try reducing all risks to zero, regardless of how much it strangles the process of people doing the actual work. I appreciate times move on and we no longer accept running risks that were considered acceptable in say the 70s, but I think the rule makers have been given their head, and they are not interested in common sense. I’m pretty sure most instant water heaters on boats have flues, they are just not room-sealed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:40:06 GMT
I've had 4 boats with instant gas water heaters. 3 of them did have a flue other one didn't.
They do consume a lot of gas so obviously there will be a lot of moisture generated in the cabin by the one without a flue.
My main objection to the flues is that the correct flue for the job is usually an ugly flimsy aluminium pile of shite.
On one of my boats, a narrow boat, the vent was a brass mushroom. Worked ok looked ok but BS requested it be changed for the awful aluminium horror.
|
|