|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 14:17:23 GMT
I've no experience of these things so this is a genuine question: can you run a diesel central heating system just for hot water in the summer? Also the one to have appears to be a 'Bubble' stove. Well I must be honest, I haven't the faintest idea. I was just assuming you could, but now you mention it, I've no reason for believing that, and it would be a rather important thing to get some certainty about. Fingers crossed one of the chaps knows... The normal evaporative heaters eg Mikuni, webasto, eberspacher, have 2 diesel flow (power) setting, full and half. Most for a narrowboat are around 4 or 5 kw. They start up on full power, if the circulating water gets to 80c they cut to half power. If the circulating water gets even hotter, they shut down the burner (whilst keeping the circulation going) until it’s cooled a bit. Therein can lie a problem which is that also, they don’t like cycling on and off, it soots them up. Normally called “short cycling”. Therefore a bad idea to under-load them. If I shut off the gate valve to the radiators and just leave the Calorifier in the loop, initially the coolant and calorifier can absorb all the heat, but after perhaps 10 mins it shuts down to 1/2 power as the water warms up (bearing in mind the rate of flow of heat into the calorifier is proportional to the temperature difference between the water in it, and the coolant). Not too long after that it will shut off. If I leave it unattended, it will short cycle. But already I have piping hot water in at least the upper part of the calorifier, plenty for a shower or the washing up. So it needs to be “managed”. One way is to crack open the gate valve to let a little coolant around the radiator loop, keeps the coolant temperature below max. Slightly wasteful in summer I suppose, but in summer the water is generally fairly warm to start with and doesn’t take as much heating. In winter, the “wasted” heat is warming the boat anyway.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 14:34:34 GMT
So it might be a tad presumptuous but perhaps I can summarise your answer a tad - 'sort of'. BTW, any idea how long it might take to have a hot tank of water by running the engine?
|
|
|
Post by patty on Apr 18, 2020 14:51:30 GMT
Thanks Mr Fox, but I'm planning do it the bloke's way, i.e. once I'e bought it, just get stuck in. And if anything needs fixing, spam this forum with desperate questions. Over the next 2 months or so I'm hoping the folks in this forum will help me to decide what are the useful features to look for, and whats not so great. Then when I'm ready to put an offer in, say in mid-July, it'll be for a boat thats half decent. Left to my own devices I'd probably end up buying a -powered pedalo. I'v had a couple of narrowboat holidays in recent years so I've got a very basic idea of how to get about, use locks etc. So I think I'll just learn the boat systems from the broker once I 've paid for it, then fill everything up, heave some coal aboard, and take off into the sunset. Well... not quite. I do have a total budget in mind which will include solar, and may include a non-engine method of water heating, if it doesnt already have one. Also, if it's not been blacked for 4 or 5 years I'll have to get that done as well if the broker has a yard, or else at a nearby yard. I'm thinking get all the important/costly stuff sorted out as soon as I've got it. My absolute total ceiling for everything if I go crazy might be as high as £63-65k, but it have to be less than five years old, low engine hours, and that will have to include solar, water heating/diesel CH, and it also wouldnt need blacking for a year or two. If it doesnt have solar already, I have to take of at least £1,000 from my budget, and it hasnt got CH, I'd need to take off another 3k. Even a quietish 2kw genny will set me back at least £500, so if its not got one already, thats more off my upper price limit. More has to come off it doesnt have a decent inverter, at least 2kw and preferably 3kw. This is the kind of thing I'm hoping I'll be able to afford, although if I can find one that's a bit older and cheaper but that still works fine, that would be even better. www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5025.aspx(Although even this one looks like it will need blacking straight away) Too many windows. oh i dunno i quite like that one
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 14:58:20 GMT
Thanks Mr Fox, but I'm planning do it the bloke's way, i.e. once I'e bought it, just get stuck in. And if anything needs fixing, spam this forum with desperate questions. Over the next 2 months or so I'm hoping the folks in this forum will help me to decide what are the useful features to look for, and whats not so great. Then when I'm ready to put an offer in, say in mid-July, it'll be for a boat thats half decent. Left to my own devices I'd probably end up buying a -powered pedalo. I'v had a couple of narrowboat holidays in recent years so I've got a very basic idea of how to get about, use locks etc. So I think I'll just learn the boat systems from the broker once I 've paid for it, then fill everything up, heave some coal aboard, and take off into the sunset. Well... not quite. I do have a total budget in mind which will include solar, and may include a non-engine method of water heating, if it doesnt already have one. Also, if it's not been blacked for 4 or 5 years I'll have to get that done as well if the broker has a yard, or else at a nearby yard. I'm thinking get all the important/costly stuff sorted out as soon as I've got it. My absolute total ceiling for everything if I go crazy might be as high as £63-65k, but it have to be less than five years old, low engine hours, and that will have to include solar, water heating/diesel CH, and it also wouldnt need blacking for a year or two. If it doesnt have solar already, I have to take of at least £1,000 from my budget, and it hasnt got CH, I'd need to take off another 3k. Even a quietish 2kw genny will set me back at least £500, so if its not got one already, thats more off my upper price limit. More has to come off it doesnt have a decent inverter, at least 2kw and preferably 3kw. This is the kind of thing I'm hoping I'll be able to afford, although if I can find one that's a bit older and cheaper but that still works fine, that would be even better. www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5025.aspx(Although even this one looks like it will need blacking straight away) Too many windows. This one will probably be sold by the time I can make an offer anyway, although I'll keep an eye on it just in case its still there in about 10 weeks time. The pandemic is going to have all sorts of knock-on effects on markets of all kinds, including used boats, so its anyone's guess whether they'll fetch normal prices because of the serious damage we're having to the economy. But would you always offer less than the asking price, no matter what? I mean it needs blacking in this case, so you could ask for what- a grand off, based on that? But even if you couldnt find any faults on a boat, is it the done thing to offer less anyway?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:01:22 GMT
So it might be a tad presumptuous but perhaps I can summarise your answer a tad - 'sort of'. BTW, any idea how long it might take to have a hot tank of water by running the engine? Not the foggiest, to be honest. On the basis that it takes a diesel car about 10-15 minutes to get up to running temp, perhaps 15-20 would be enough?
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 15:07:12 GMT
So it might be a tad presumptuous but perhaps I can summarise your answer a tad - 'sort of'. BTW, any idea how long it might take to have a hot tank of water by running the engine? It takes us about 20-30 mins, but it will depend on the cooling circuit design etc I would think. And of course it depends on where you are starting from - if starting from stone cold winter with calorifier temperature 5C, it will take a lot longer than if starting from tepid calorifier at 30C. As I mentioned earlier, it can be aided by running the immersion heater which not only adds heat to the calorifier, but also loads the engine so it heats up quicker. Provided your alternator can keep up.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Apr 18, 2020 15:09:50 GMT
So it might be a tad presumptuous but perhaps I can summarise your answer a tad - 'sort of'. BTW, any idea how long it might take to have a hot tank of water by running the engine? Not the foggiest, to be honest. On the basis that it takes a diesel car about 10-15 minutes to get up to running temp, perhaps 15-20 would be enough? The only other thing to bear in mind is that the engine thermostat for a modern Beta is set around 70C, and at light loads ours runs at around 65C, whereas with the Mikuni it is 80C. So you will get hotter water (of which you need less) when using the mikuni, or the immersion (ours is set to about 80C)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:17:19 GMT
Another hot water provision system is the Alde gas boiler. I've got one on one of the boats. It's actually quite good. You would end up spending a lot of money on gas if used as a central heating system but if dedicated to a calorifier coil it's a very effective and economical unit.
The one I have is the 1990s tall thin one takes up incredibly small amount of space and has a room sealed flue on it.
Worthwhile bit of kit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:19:01 GMT
oh i dunno i quite like that one I think it's ok too. Sensible layout assuming the bedroom is astern. Keep portholes for the more private area and decent size windows for the daytime living areas. That's my idea of sensible, was how my narrow boat Tiger was laid out and how I would arrange my FMC Josher conversion in future if I get back on the narrow stuff. Portholes are ok but I do like to be able to see out of a boat.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:25:57 GMT
In winter you would have an alternative heat source anyway if your diesel heating system did water as well. Personally I'd stick with the calorifier to satisfy one's bathing needs in summer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:28:03 GMT
About 7k to 10k overpriced is my opinion - without actually seeing the boat.
View a fair number of boats before deciding on value - pictures can hide a thousand words...
Now back to my bat impressions - only one belt to put back on...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:29:58 GMT
oh i dunno i quite like that one I think it's ok too. Sensible layout assuming the bedroom is astern. Keep portholes for the more private area and decent size windows for the daytime living areas. That's my idea of sensible, was how my narrow boat Tiger was laid out and how I would arrange my FMC Josher conversion in future if I get back on the narrow stuff. Portholes are ok but I do like to be able to see out of a boat. I've always thought that having symmetrical windows just creates a goldfish bowl that you live in. But you are not alone - the majority of narrowboats are like that. Yuk.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:31:02 GMT
Here is a belt and braces end of world no spares available canal boat heating and hot water arrangement:
Triple coil calorifier heated by engine, webasto and Alde gas boiler. Morco instant water heater. Refleks diesel cabin heater (no water system to go wrong and no electric needed). Multifuel stove (no water system to go wrong and no electric needed).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:32:40 GMT
I think it's ok too. Sensible layout assuming the bedroom is astern. Keep portholes for the more private area and decent size windows for the daytime living areas. That's my idea of sensible, was how my narrow boat Tiger was laid out and how I would arrange my FMC Josher conversion in future if I get back on the narrow stuff. Portholes are ok but I do like to be able to see out of a boat. I've always thought that having symmetrical windows just creates a goldfish bowl that you live in. But you are not alone - the majority of narrowboats are like that. Yuk. There is always the option to use curtains. Or blinds. Venetian maybe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 15:33:59 GMT
Anyway I think it's very very dodgy to use links to the brokerage site that must never be discussed.
Fast one pullers.
Speaking of Whilton I was a bit taken aback to discover what happened to the man who used to run the little chandlery there. The canal shop.
Oh dear!
No connection to the brokerage he was a separate entity later located at Hillmorton.
|
|