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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 23, 2020 4:47:48 GMT
This new documentary looks interesting. Everyone touting their electric cars and solar panels looks a little embarrassed when pressed as to where the energy comes from to drive them or manufacture them. I've filed it under 'Religion' as that's pretty much what it is, if you believe you are getting something for nothing.
"The problem with all these materials is that it takes an incredible amount of energy to mine and process all of the materials that go into building something like this. You use more fossil fuels to do this than you're getting benefit from. You would have been better off just burning the fossil fuels in the first place." (as a response to building natural gas power stations used to start up fields of solar panels).
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Post by peterboat on Apr 23, 2020 17:25:32 GMT
Foxy its all backed by big oil who are scared of losing their income!! they are spending huge amounts of dollars to kill us with pollution because they dont give a shit about us, all they care about is selling us increasingly expensive oil!! Its easy to see why you are taken in by their lies
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 18:47:23 GMT
Hey peterboat, I think you've got your wires twisted a bit, Michael Moore is something of a dissenter. Haven't watched what Ross is on about but my bet would be its a savage critique of the energy industry.
What do you think of the idea that the DPRK is a model of sustainable development?
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Post by peterboat on Apr 24, 2020 17:03:57 GMT
Hey peterboat, I think you've got your wires twisted a bit, Michael Moore is something of a dissenter. Haven't watched what Ross is on about but my bet would be its a savage critique of the energy industry. What do you think of the idea that the DPRK is a model of sustainable development? I was replying to foxys comments mate not the film its 1 and 3/4 hours long and it was fairly interesting
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 1:31:06 GMT
Things learnt from this film
Bankers are bad Capitalism is bad Richard Branson is naughty Soylent Green is made from people
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 25, 2020 2:26:14 GMT
Foxy its all backed by big oil who are scared of losing their income!! they are spending huge amounts of dollars to kill us with pollution because they dont give a shit about us, all they care about is selling us increasingly expensive oil!! Its easy to see why you are taken in by their lies Agree with how you started, Peter, but I'm don't get why you think I'm taken in with anything... oh... the penny drops... you think it's rubbish that 'Green Energy' needs fossil fuels to back it up? I'm all for green environmentally friendly energy, but I need to see that it's true, and not magic. Take windmills for example - I myself have seen them being constructed in the region where we live. Those huge vehicles with 18 big wheels carrying the blades, one blade at a time, they aren't being powered by hamsters running around in wheels, but many hundreds of litres of diesel each day. All the workers driving every day from Himanka to Kannus in their petrol driven cars. That diesel and petrol has to be pumped out of the ground, and transported here. And the energy for smelting the metal... and mining the ore.... Please show an example of 'green energy' that does not have 'fossil fuels' anywhere in its background. Even horses have to be fed, and their oats come by means of road transport and/or farm machinery. The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 25, 2020 2:37:40 GMT
Hey peterboat, I think you've got your wires twisted a bit, Michael Moore is something of a dissenter. Haven't watched what Ross is on about but my bet would be its a savage critique of the energy industry. The documentary aims to show that people are not told the truth about 'green energy', that there is very little of it powering any country, that green energy is backed up by fossil fuels (or the lights go out when it's cloudy or the wind stops), and that green energy systems are created by using such vast amounts fossil fuels that it would have been more efficient to get the energy (at consumer stage) just by burning the fossil fuels. I do believe we'll go on solar/wind, etc. In the future, electricity seems to be the key, but for now it remains largely fake and the oil companies are cashing in. They have hijacked the green movement's well-meaning aims to make their evil empires look all fluffy and cuddly.
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Post by Gone on Apr 25, 2020 6:57:24 GMT
Foxy its all backed by big oil who are scared of losing their income!! they are spending huge amounts of dollars to kill us with pollution because they dont give a shit about us, all they care about is selling us increasingly expensive oil!! Its easy to see why you are taken in by their lies ................ The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains. And when it’s all gone we will have to use natural and sustainable oils such as whale oil, I wonder what the greens will make of that???
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Post by JohnV on Apr 25, 2020 7:21:15 GMT
................ The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains. And when it’s all gone we will have to use natural and sustainable oils such as whale oil, I wonder what the greens will make of that??? gives the term "The Oil of the People" a worrying aspect
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Post by peterboat on Apr 25, 2020 10:28:32 GMT
Foxy its all backed by big oil who are scared of losing their income!! they are spending huge amounts of dollars to kill us with pollution because they dont give a shit about us, all they care about is selling us increasingly expensive oil!! Its easy to see why you are taken in by their lies Agree with how you started, Peter, but I'm don't get why you think I'm taken in with anything... oh... the penny drops... you think it's rubbish that 'Green Energy' needs fossil fuels to back it up? I'm all for green environmentally friendly energy, but I need to see that it's true, and not magic. Take windmills for example - I myself have seen them being constructed in the region where we live. Those huge vehicles with 18 big wheels carrying the blades, one blade at a time, they aren't being powered by hamsters running around in wheels, but many hundreds of litres of diesel each day. All the workers driving every day from Himanka to Kannus in their petrol driven cars. That diesel and petrol has to be pumped out of the ground, and transported here. And the energy for smelting the metal... and mining the ore.... Please show an example of 'green energy' that does not have 'fossil fuels' anywhere in its background. Even horses have to be fed, and their oats come by means of road transport and/or farm machinery. The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 25, 2020 10:40:47 GMT
Foxy its all backed by big oil who are scared of losing their income!! they are spending huge amounts of dollars to kill us with pollution because they dont give a shit about us, all they care about is selling us increasingly expensive oil!! Its easy to see why you are taken in by their lies Agree with how you started, Peter, but I'm don't get why you think I'm taken in with anything... oh... the penny drops... you think it's rubbish that 'Green Energy' needs fossil fuels to back it up? I'm all for green environmentally friendly energy, but I need to see that it's true, and not magic. Take windmills for example - I myself have seen them being constructed in the region where we live. Those huge vehicles with 18 big wheels carrying the blades, one blade at a time, they aren't being powered by hamsters running around in wheels, but many hundreds of litres of diesel each day. All the workers driving every day from Himanka to Kannus in their petrol driven cars. That diesel and petrol has to be pumped out of the ground, and transported here. And the energy for smelting the metal... and mining the ore.... Please show an example of 'green energy' that does not have 'fossil fuels' anywhere in its background. Even horses have to be fed, and their oats come by means of road transport and/or farm machinery. The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains. Foxy its all big oil lies they will spend trillions of dollars to make us believe that oil is the only way, they dont care who they kill as long as the dollars keep on rolling in
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 26, 2020 7:42:45 GMT
Agree with how you started, Peter, but I'm don't get why you think I'm taken in with anything... oh... the penny drops... you think it's rubbish that 'Green Energy' needs fossil fuels to back it up? I'm all for green environmentally friendly energy, but I need to see that it's true, and not magic. Take windmills for example - I myself have seen them being constructed in the region where we live. Those huge vehicles with 18 big wheels carrying the blades, one blade at a time, they aren't being powered by hamsters running around in wheels, but many hundreds of litres of diesel each day. All the workers driving every day from Himanka to Kannus in their petrol driven cars. That diesel and petrol has to be pumped out of the ground, and transported here. And the energy for smelting the metal... and mining the ore.... Please show an example of 'green energy' that does not have 'fossil fuels' anywhere in its background. Even horses have to be fed, and their oats come by means of road transport and/or farm machinery. The madness (or genius?) of exploiting natural oil and gas will only disappear when it's all been burnt or used for lubricating bicycle chains. Foxy its all big oil lies they will spend trillions of dollars to make us believe that oil is the only way, they dont care who they kill as long as the dollars keep on rolling in Yes, I seem to agree with you with how you roll it our with this line. Worth bearing in mind about electric cars: "The motor of a Toyota Prius requires about 3 pounds of neodymium. China produces the vast majority of this rare earth element, 95%. Whle other countries, including the U.S., have significant amounts of these, China's low-cost labour and lax environmental restrictions has afforded it a big advantage in the mining-intensive industry." Hmmm.... mining... sounds like fossil fuels are used for the extraction of neodymium, though! You could still provide us with an example - just one! - where 'green energy' provides 'green energy'. And I don't mean the horses pulling wooden canal boats made by men with adzes.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 26, 2020 8:55:57 GMT
Foxy its all big oil lies they will spend trillions of dollars to make us believe that oil is the only way, they dont care who they kill as long as the dollars keep on rolling in Yes, I seem to agree with you with how you roll it our with this line. Worth bearing in mind about electric cars: "The motor of a Toyota Prius requires about 3 pounds of neodymium. China produces the vast majority of this rare earth element, 95%. Whle other countries, including the U.S., have significant amounts of these, China's low-cost labour and lax environmental restrictions has afforded it a big advantage in the mining-intensive industry." Hmmm.... mining... sounds like fossil fuels are used for the extraction of neodymium, though! You could still provide us with an example - just one! - where 'green energy' provides 'green energy'. And I don't mean the horses pulling wooden canal boats made by men with adzes. This self-charging mining truck is the world's largest electric ... www.autoblog.com › 2019/08/26 › edumper-electric-mining-truck-se...
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 26, 2020 9:11:05 GMT
Yeah - but what is it made of? And where did the materials come from? And where does the electricity come from?..... and how does the driver get to work? The rubber for the tyres came from...? Chinese neodymium for the electric motors? How did that arrive...? How long will the batteries and motors work before they are knackered? Grease for the moving parts / bearings? Comes from...? It's just a toy at the end of a very long line of actions all aided by fossil fuels, even including the lights in the offices of those who designed it.
The only real source of local 'free green energy' is from the Sun and from the heat inside this planet itself. Both are dwindling, of course, but in millions/billions of years, so not really a worry just yet. Solar panels and mirrors to direct sunlight and thermal wells are what we'll end up with, fossils fuels are finite and will run out. All the trees in the world won't take long to burn if you really have a go at it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 9:33:05 GMT
One thing people may have learnt from this lock down and by living in a boat/caravan/camper for a while is that you don't need much power in the first place to survive. We seem to focus more on fixing the symptoms rather than deal with the cause (greed?).
It's obviously a bit trickier in the winter but the amount of energy being wasted on producing stuff we don't really need is the biggest threat.
The trouble is that true environmentalism involves giving up big cars, big houses, big boats, buying the latest clothes and gadgets, going on holiday abroad, doing pointless jobs, eating unsustainable food, using unsustainable products...
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