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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:04:54 GMT
I was hoping to kris ... I thought some here would have gone that way, they're not uncommon these days, and to many, being waterless has appeal. I asked questions, I'm not responsible for how people respond ... it is apparent that @tonyc is seriously examining the method as am I. I remember when folks used to scoff at solar panels on boats ... times change and things move on (if you'll excuse the choice of words). Rog
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:05:20 GMT
I explained my interest, and will continue to enquire further ... perhaps not here. I know someone who has recently fitted a Simploo ... I will speak to them when next we meet as it was this sort of conversation I was hoping for. I know kris and peterboat do composting ... but I have made it clear that whilst cc'ing composting is not a consideration for me, and my enquiry was relating to 'dry toilets' not composting toilets. Thanks again @tonyc for some good stuff. I'll report back, no doubt in the autumn, which way we jumped. Rog That’s the way talk to people who actually have one. Yes well by definition people who are continuing to use them must think they are a good option. It's sort of obvious. There may even be some people who found them unsatisfactory. CRT waterways are generally set up for chemical toilet and pumpout usage. That's just a simple fact. Yes it would be good if CRT catered for composted or partially composted solids in some sort of special disposal system but this would surely cost money. Who is going to fund it? Extra license fees for this with composting toilets?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:10:53 GMT
When I was younger I used to be similarly horrified watching entire families being licked right on the chops by their enthusiastic and loving pooches (this was before I started living with hounds myself). I wanted to shout at them to be careful- to tell them they were all doomed, and were certain to die in agony. I felt like that crazed pastor in the film Zulu, who kept shouting "you're all going to die!" at the justifiably worried Welshmen and their officers. Except I shouted on the inside, obviously. And yet somehow they all survived- every man jack of them survived the deadly licking. I don't know how they survived- these germs are real, and dogs stomachs can handle them better than ours because of more acidity (or something). A decade later I was carelessly allowing my own dog a bite from a snack and then scoffing the rest of it myself without pause. There is something about being around these creatures that definitely lowers one's concerns about personal space, or food hygiene- or saliva. They do love a bit of saliva- on other people of course. Kids brought up with animals have a stronger immune system, a wider range of gut flora. We had animals when I was under 10. Ponies, fowl, cats, I did quite a bit of the stable mucking out and on one occasion ate some dry horse-shit because sister encouraged me to. Not an issue really. It's just dried grass. The moist stuff is less appealing.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:15:48 GMT
I believe things like boat toilet systems and solar panels, specially when they were expensive, are sometimes subjected to choice-supportive bias en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_biasQuite an interesting psychological phenomenon.
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 8:19:09 GMT
Yes it would be good if CRT catered for composted or partially composted solids in some sort of special disposal system but this would surely cost money. Who is going to fund it? Extra license fees for this with composting toilets? The idea that crt is a poor organisation is a false one, put about by crt so people feel sorry for them and give them more money. CRTs current strategy for providing the extra facilities boaters require, is to close down as many waste and elsan facilities as they can. They don’t want to deal with the extra litter their campaign to bring more people to the towpath has caused. They are getting rid of bins on towpaths, because if they have bins they have to empty them. Much better than the rubbish ending up in the cut I would have thought.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:23:27 GMT
Indeed ... I see the water and rubbish point at Barbridge junction has gone.
I recall they said the bridge was now 'too weak' to support a bin lorry ... but that doesn't explain the loss of the tap.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:24:39 GMT
I believe things like boat toilet systems and solar panels, specially when they were expensive, are sometimes subjected to choice-supportive bias en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_biaQuite an interesting psychological phenomenon. bias!
link doesn't work without the S .....
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 8:28:11 GMT
Indeed ... I see the water and rubbish point at Barbridge junction has gone. I recall they said the bridge was now 'too weak' to support a bin lorry ... but that doesn't explain the loss of the tap. Rog This is the gradual creep to expecting boaters to pay private companies to deal with their waste. Unless boaters stand up and defend these facilities then they will all go. I wonder how much the marinas will charge to use the elsan when there’s no free alternative? We can’t trust crt to deal with any waste from boaters for much longer.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:32:27 GMT
I believe things like boat toilet systems and solar panels, specially when they were expensive, are sometimes subjected to choice-supportive bias en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_biaQuite an interesting psychological phenomenon. bias!
link doesn't work without the S .....
Yes now corrected
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 8:33:33 GMT
Indeed ... I see the water and rubbish point at Barbridge junction has gone. I recall they said the bridge was now 'too weak' to support a bin lorry ... but that doesn't explain the loss of the tap. Rog This is the gradual creep to expecting boaters to pay private companies to deal with their waste. Unless boaters stand up and defend these facilities then they will all go. I wonder how much the marinas will charge to use the elsan when there’s no free alternative? We can’t trust crt to deal with any waste from boaters for much longer. Could it be a gradual move towards local authority management of towpaths and moorings? If you get local people using the towpaths as a park and generating waste surely it should be their council taxes funding the rubbish bins not CRT license fee payers. Same for vegetation management apart from around locks.
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 8:40:13 GMT
This is the gradual creep to expecting boaters to pay private companies to deal with their waste. Unless boaters stand up and defend these facilities then they will all go. I wonder how much the marinas will charge to use the elsan when there’s no free alternative? We can’t trust crt to deal with any waste from boaters for much longer. Could it be a gradual move towards local authority management of towpaths and moorings? If you get local people using the towpaths as a park and generating waste surely it should be their council taxes funding the rubbish bins not CRT license fee payers. Same for vegetation management apart from around locks. Are you sure you don’t work for crt? Crt have been happy enough to receive the licence fees all these years and excepted the responsibility for dealing with boaters waste. They can not now absolve themselves of any responsibility and yet still keep taking the money. They need to step up and face the challenges of maintaining a waterways system in the 21st century or step off and let some more grass roots organisation take over. Oh of course I’m forgetting, for the parasites in crts management it’s not about the preservation of the waterways. But all about the property portfolio that came with it.
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Post by lollygagger on May 22, 2020 9:07:50 GMT
I think it's more about being given a bunch of stuff and making the best of it - with navigation being seen as a small part, but annoyingly large cost for their overall vision of a 3,000 mile long waterside footpath/cycleway/fishing spot for the whole population. Very approximately 60 million people, 30,000 boat licences so only 1 in 2,000 potential canal/towpath users has a boat. 2 peeps per boat? ok 1 in 1,000. A tiny minority stake in the real world.
But all this behaviour is simply aimed at positioning for more government funding with no regard for much else. To get that funding they have to fail! ...and now it's pretty clear there won't be any. The money is gone. Asking for more will be met with chortles.
It's time for a rethink. There won't be more money and though we all suspect the thing could be perfectly well maintained with the money they have...as long as it keeps rolling in... but it won't keep rolling in.
Being logical I have to say MM's logic on likelihood of some future privatisation (which I'm sure doesn't represent his wishes as the cheap shots on here always presume in order to attack HIM rather than the elephant in the room) is hard to argue with. Nobody wants this but it's an inevitable conclusion. There will be no (or vastly less) public money for CRT going forwards so what else can happen? 10 fold increase in boat licences wouldn't work - not enough would afford it even if willing.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 9:17:04 GMT
I think it's more about being given a bunch of stuff and making the best of it - with navigation being seen as a small part, but annoyingly large cost for their overall vision of a 3,000 mile long waterside footpath/cycleway/fishing spot for the whole population. Very approximately 60 million people, 30,000 boat licences so only 1 in 2,000 potential canal/towpath users has a boat. 2 peeps per boat? ok 1 in 1,000. A tiny minority stake in the real world. But all this behaviour is simply aimed at positioning for more government funding with no regard for much else. To get that funding they have to fail! ...and now it's pretty clear there won't be any. The money is gone. Asking for more will be met with chortles. It's time for a rethink. There won't be more money and though we all suspect the thing could be perfectly well maintained with the money they have...as long as it keeps rolling in... but it won't keep rolling in. Being logical I have to say MM's logic on likelihood of some future privatisation (which I'm sure doesn't represent his wishes as the cheap shots on here always presume in order to attack HIM rather than the elephant in the room) is hard to argue with. Nobody wants this but it's an inevitable conclusion. There will be no (or vastly less) public money for CRT going forwards so what else can happen? 10 fold increase in boat licences wouldn't work - not enough would afford it even if willing. Whilst I agree with much of your post - I just can't see privatisation working in the sense of continued 'free' access for the majority - where is the profit/covering costs going to come from?
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 10:06:59 GMT
I think it's more about being given a bunch of stuff and making the best of it - with navigation being seen as a small part, but annoyingly large cost for their overall vision of a 3,000 mile long waterside footpath/cycleway/fishing spot for the whole population. The difference is I’ve worked for them and met these characters personally.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 10:17:56 GMT
I think it's more about being given a bunch of stuff and making the best of it - with navigation being seen as a small part, but annoyingly large cost for their overall vision of a 3,000 mile long waterside footpath/cycleway/fishing spot for the whole population. The difference is I’ve worked for them and met these characters personally. Given that how do you think/what are your thoughts on how CRT could deal with the rather serious matter of the DEFRA grant being stopped completely?
It is a serious question that I don't know the answer to. I might not like your answer but I am interested in it.
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