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Post by Telemachus on May 27, 2020 19:57:06 GMT
On the PIA crash I now know what happened, and it’s pretty outrageous. They were very high on approach, like 10,000’ when they should have been more like 2000’. Maybe forgot to descend. They were trying to get down and had some massive rates of descent, peaking at 7000’/min when it should have been more like 700. And flying very fast, over 250kts when it should have been more like 140, ie pointing the nose down and hoping for the best. The undercarriage was up on final approach, you can hear the warning chimes on the radio transmission where the captain acknowledges landing clearance. They were still doing about 200kts as they came over the runway (gear up). They contacted the runway about 1/2 way along still going very fast(absolutely no chance of stopping before the end). With the gear up, it was the engines that hit the ground, damaging the accessory drives of both engines (oil pumps, generators etc). They went around, climbed to about 2000’ and both engines conked out due to the impact damage. Then they crashed (nose held up at low speed, on the verge of stalling all the way down) and lots of people died. Massively incompetent on every level - astonishing!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 20:05:58 GMT
Also there was more than one runway impact.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 27, 2020 20:08:15 GMT
On the PIA crash I now know what happened, and it’s pretty outrageous. They were very high on approach, like 10,000’ when they should have been more like 2000’. Maybe forgot to descend. They were trying to get down and had some massive rates of descent, peaking at 7000’/min when it should have been more like 700. And flying very fast, over 250kts when it should have been more like 140, ie pointing the nose down and hoping for the best. The undercarriage was up on final approach, you can hear the warning chimes on the radio transmission where the captain acknowledges landing clearance. They were still doing about 200kts as they came over the runway (gear up). They contacted the runway about 1/2 way along still going very fast(absolutely no chance of stopping before the end). With the gear up, it was the engines that hit the ground, damaging the accessory drives of both engines (oil pumps, generators etc). They went around, climbed to about 2000’ and both engines conked out due to the impact damage. Then they crashed (nose held up at low speed, on the verge of stalling all the way down) and lots of people died. Massively incompetent on every level - astonishing! Animation here (with cockpit to tower voice recordings)-
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Post by Telemachus on May 27, 2020 20:47:47 GMT
On the PIA crash I now know what happened, and it’s pretty outrageous. They were very high on approach, like 10,000’ when they should have been more like 2000’. Maybe forgot to descend. They were trying to get down and had some massive rates of descent, peaking at 7000’/min when it should have been more like 700. And flying very fast, over 250kts when it should have been more like 140, ie pointing the nose down and hoping for the best. The undercarriage was up on final approach, you can hear the warning chimes on the radio transmission where the captain acknowledges landing clearance. They were still doing about 200kts as they came over the runway (gear up). They contacted the runway about 1/2 way along still going very fast(absolutely no chance of stopping before the end). With the gear up, it was the engines that hit the ground, damaging the accessory drives of both engines (oil pumps, generators etc). They went around, climbed to about 2000’ and both engines conked out due to the impact damage. Then they crashed (nose held up at low speed, on the verge of stalling all the way down) and lots of people died. Massively incompetent on every level - astonishing! Animation here (with cockpit to tower voice recordings)- Well maybe that satisfies non-aviation numpties but it completely misses the point that the aircraft was massively high and fast. The actual ATC transmission recordings don't have the gear alarm sounding until the very last transmission. The vid implies that they knew the gear was up and were attempting a belly landing but that is bollocks - at times they were flying too fast for the gear to come down, which is probably why it didn't come down. If you really knew you had a gear problem you would go around and spend some time trying to get it down using the emergency systems, talk to ATC to get the emergency services ready, burn off fuel and then come in as slow as possible. You wouldn't come screaming in 70kts above normal speed without mentioning it to anyone. No, I think they didn't realise the gear was up because the whole thing was such a cockup. To be honest, they deserved to die. Pity about the passengers, who didn't.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 27, 2020 20:58:52 GMT
Animation here (with cockpit to tower voice recordings)- To be honest, they deserved to die.
You mean that if they made a mistake in configuring the aircraft for landing then they deserve to die? That's a bit harsh, isn't it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 21:08:47 GMT
Well they didn't have covid (but there were underlying health issues).
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Post by Telemachus on May 27, 2020 21:36:45 GMT
To be honest, they deserved to die.
You mean that if they made a mistake in configuring the aircraft for landing then they deserve to die? That's a bit harsh, isn't it? That would be a bit harsh. But it wasn't what happened. You have been sucked in by some 12 year old nerdy kid's re-enactment on a flight sim, but it is a long way away from what actually happened.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 27, 2020 21:46:21 GMT
You mean that if they made a mistake in configuring the aircraft for landing then they deserve to die? That's a bit harsh, isn't it? That would be a bit harsh. But it wasn't what happened. You have been sucked in by some 12 year old nerdy kid's re-enactment on a flight sim, but it is a long way away from what actually happened. I'm not entirely sure about that. The Flight Channel is a fairly long running and well-respected YouTube account which frequently attracts positive feedback from commercial aeroplane pilots. Obviously I mean proper aeroplanes, not gliders.
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Post by thebfg on May 28, 2020 6:55:52 GMT
That would be a bit harsh. But it wasn't what happened. You have been sucked in by some 12 year old nerdy kid's re-enactment on a flight sim, but it is a long way away from what actually happened. I'm not entirely sure about that. The Flight Channel is a fairly long running and well-respected YouTube account which frequently attracts positive feedback from commercial aeroplane pilots. Obviously I mean proper aeroplanes, not gliders. It starts with a note about it being a true story based on official reports and witnesses. I can't believe that is the actual radio. It does really go against what Nick is saying. Would they have been released yet? Or are there people out there that record them? Seems to be some very key moments missing. Al very laid back for a plane with no landing gear and no engines.
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2020 7:02:21 GMT
I'm not entirely sure about that. The Flight Channel is a fairly long running and well-respected YouTube account which frequently attracts positive feedback from commercial aeroplane pilots. Obviously I mean proper aeroplanes, not gliders. It starts with a note about it being a true story based on official reports and witnesses. I can't believe that is the actual radio. It does really go against what Nick is saying. Would they have been released yet? Or are there people out there that record them? Seems to be some very key moments missing. Al very laid back for a plane with no landing gear and no engines. If you want a proper analysis of what happened, by someone who knows what they are talking about, try this. Is is #4 in a series, there are also videos 1 to 3 available. I think you have to be a pilot to understand the importance of a stabilised approach and how much this is drummed into pilots.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 28, 2020 8:09:29 GMT
I'm not entirely sure about that. The Flight Channel is a fairly long running and well-respected YouTube account which frequently attracts positive feedback from commercial aeroplane pilots. Obviously I mean proper aeroplanes, not gliders. I can't believe that is the actual radio. "A pilot on board a plane carrying 107 people that crashed in Pakistan on Friday warned of engine trouble in a final distress call. "We have lost two engines. Mayday, mayday, mayday," a pilot can be heard saying in audio published by Live ATC, a website which gives access to air traffic control radio transmissions." www.businessinsider.com/audio-final-mayday-call-crashed-pakistan-airlines-107-dead-2020-5?r=US&IR=T
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Post by thebfg on May 28, 2020 9:10:12 GMT
Must he just a dodgy you tuber then. You would have thought he would put some proper communication in.
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Post by thebfg on May 28, 2020 9:15:35 GMT
Cheers Nick, I got the jist of most of that. To be fair on the plane video, I have just noticed the uploader made a comment that it might not be 100% accurate as the full data has not been released. I guess he has just put snippets together. I guess the full radio log will be released at some point.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 28, 2020 11:06:01 GMT
"Severely disgusted in PIA" L Malban (United Kingdom) 27th March 2020
✅ Trip Verified | Birmingham to Islamabad. I am severely disgusted in PIA for the way in which they have handled the crisis of COVID-19. Having cancelled all of their flights up to April 5th, they have not sent out any confirmation e-mails regarding this. When I rang the airline contact centre, they told me my flight has been cancelled however they will not book me and my father onto the emergency flights leaving the same date (29.03) and same time (11.50am) as our original flights. When I queried why, he just told me he could not. I asked to speak to his manager which he refused and also would not provide me with his managers name. I further asked him for a confirmation e-mail my flights have been cancelled and he refused to do this. He then went on to cut the call on me. I am so disgusted this is the kind of service PIA provide to it's loyal customers. Do not ever book with this airline. There is no on flight entertainment."
I think the entertainment comes right at the end!
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Post by Telemachus on May 28, 2020 11:34:42 GMT
Cheers Nick, I got the jist of most of that. To be fair on the plane video, I have just noticed the uploader made a comment that it might not be 100% accurate as the full data has not been released. I guess he has just put snippets together. I guess the full radio log will be released at some point. Yes of course even the video I linked to isn’t the full accident investigation. But the available ADSB data is pretty reliable in terms of time, altitude and speed. The radio traffic seems to have come from a local source who routinely records all the air traffic communications.
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