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Post by Jim on May 29, 2020 8:07:27 GMT
The thing that always put me off living in a vehicle is that you will generally always be somewhere on a public highway. On a boat you can get off the highway. Ok so usually you are on a towpath which will have zombie cyclists and other idiot type humans on it but it's not a road vehicle highway. I think its worth adding on this that the Camping and Caravan Club (CCC) manage a network of up to 2,000 locations for camping, typically in rural areas, part of a farmers field etc, and usually with only 5 or 6 places, and plenty of space- these are called certified locations I think (CLs). This type of campsite typically has no electricity (only water), which limits their appeal to many caravanners and motorhomers. So they are often very quiet, but even better they are very cheap, most around £15 per night or less. You can stay for up to 28 days at a cost of about 300-400, mostly in really nice quiet locations, and well away from the road and its many associated nuisances. Its still not cheap compared to a CC license say, but if you do that for half the year, it could be affordable and give you a lovely quiet retreat. So its not all bsy laybys on the A1 etc, there are plenty of very quiet spots, even when wild camping. The thing about wild camping is you know that if you stay there more than say 2 days, you are going to start running the risk of getting a knock, a rude local, a gang of kids, or a bobby. So there is that psychological pressure to always keep moving. There is also the Caravan and Motorhome Club (the motorhome bit added to the title about a year ago), they also have CLs, 5 vans only, mostly they do have electrickery and a toilet, sometimes a shower, all have water and an elsan point, some lovely locations. Price is similar, about £15 a night, it's going up slowly though. Our caravan hasn't had much use since we got the boat, compared to before, it sits happily on the drive, a tiny grp Freedom 2 berth, 750kg max, so it may be possible to tow it with an electric vehicle in the future, certainly a hybrid would do the job. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 8:17:46 GMT
We have a boat and a tin tent, we use CL from C&CC for the tin tent there are some very quiet and cheap ones if you look. Costs is an interesting thing, tin tent cost £3000 its 19 years old and in excellent condition. Costs per year are less than £500 including storage, insurance and a yearly service. Boat is 27 years old and running costs over time are 10 times that plus £43k we paid for it. The boat will be going in the next few years as its no longer our home and the way that navigation systems are going we have had the best years. Thanks Loddon- it feels for me as if it is an either/or situation, as I would want to spend 50% of my time living in each if I had both- and having one of them sat there for 6 months in every year seems wasteful. So it would be a boat for a few years, then (maybe) move into a motorhome. I must say I never 'did the numbers' on the two options in a detailed way. My guess is that as a full time living option, they vary wildly depending on how big you spend. For example, I remember at one point casting envious eyes at 60 grand A class motorhomes, but at that price level you will lose a shedload of money very quickly, and after a 20 year ownership it probably wont fetch more than 10k. Clearly in that case the numbers are going to be bad, but those buy them can afford it and are ok with that. Its certainly an eye opened to see the boat running costs are so much greater than the van- although as a full time living option, the van would start to get dearer, if you added in a month's stay at a CL here and there? |
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Post by lollygagger on May 29, 2020 8:23:55 GMT
Love them or hate them I have a 70's VW camper. Free historic road tax, no MOT (though I do MOT mine), £120 fully comp including European rescue if it blew up. Fits in car parking spaces - a huge plus. Rubbish mpg but you can't have everything and you'd be crazy to have one unless you like and are good at spannering because your average garage won't want to touch it. I have lived in it in the winter but not recommended. It's a good halfway solution and if you like people you can't park without somebody coming over to chat. Modern versions are available, the most popular being a Mazda Bongo. It's my only vehicle. You can fit whole sheets of ply in it which is a bonus.  I wouldn't want a motorhome, too big and cumbersome, difficult at the supermarket etc. Motorhome v boat? Two totally different things, incomparable. Your question to yourself is more "where do I want to go?". Once you decide that there only be one answer. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 8:27:00 GMT
8 years ago I was torn between living in a camper or a boat. A camper is more versatile if you want to travel wherever you want but you're always worrying whether you're going to get woken up by the police in the mid hours. A decent sized boat is likely to offer more space wise and it's nice being beside the water all of the time.
Another issue with living in a camper, is the worry of being caught over the limit when in charge of the vehicle, although on a camp site or pub car park you would probably be Ok.
The bottom line is that I am so glad I bought the boat. However if needs must I would be happy to live in a camper still.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 8:31:17 GMT
A boat offer a more constrained version of nomadic living, but with an enormous payoff in comfort, and in a relaxing mindset. Maybe the boat is too close to a normal domestic house living for some travel-lovers? I’ve lived a nomadic lifestyle for most of my life. Including living “on the road,” in vehicles. I find living on a boat in no way constraining in fact quite the opposite in fact. Living on a boat allows me to keep living a nomadic existence, but in comparative luxury as where ever I am I have my home with me. Yes I have had this before whilst travelling by bicycle, carrying a tent, tarp and hammock etc. But now my home includes a workshop and a music studio. Much less constraining than living out of a rucksack or off a bicycle or even out of a van. In my opinion anyway. I wonder if part of the appreciation for space and comfort of a boat comes as you get older? Certainly in my case I would have leaned more towards motorhome living if I had been in my current retirement position at the age of 30 or 40. I wouldn't have minded the very stripped down approach to possessions, or the tight constraints on water use, the need to constantly keep moving, etc. But I do feel that at 57, that might all be a bit too hardcore as a full time prospect. There is also the thought that in a 57ft boat, there is at least the possibility that a potential future partner might consider moving aboard, because of the home comforts, relaxed lifestyle etc. Living full time in a motorhome is likely to appeal to a much, much smaller group of women- quite apart from the fact that I think solo motorhome living would have less 'meaningful' social interactions on a day to day basis (i.e. actual conversations, as opposed to just buying lunch in a cafe etc)- so there is less potential for actually forming a relationship in the first place- at least from daily interactions. Much as I joke about not wanting people mooring up next to me in quiet rural spots, it is at least a less lonely lifestyle than you might experience in a motorhome. |
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Post by kris on May 29, 2020 8:36:08 GMT
If part of your reasoning behind buying a boat is you think it will attract a partner, your quite mistaken. There are a lot of older bachelors on the cut.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 9:00:26 GMT
Love them or hate them I have a 70's VW camper. Free historic road tax, no MOT (though I do MOT mine), £120 fully comp including European rescue if it blew up. Fits in car parking spaces - a huge plus. Rubbish mpg but you can't have everything and you'd be crazy to have one unless you like and are good at spannering because your average garage won't want to touch it. I have lived in it in the winter but not recommended. It's a good halfway solution and if you like people you can't park without somebody coming over to chat. Modern versions are available, the most popular being a Mazda Bongo. It's my only vehicle. You can fit whole sheets of ply in it which is a bonus. I wouldn't want a motorhome, too big and cumbersome, difficult at the supermarket etc. Motorhome v boat? Two totally different things, incomparable. Your question to yourself is more "where do I want to go?". Once you decide that there only be one answer. The old VW campers are one of the few exceptions where road travel actually has some character to it. Who doesnt love the old VW campers- or at least the idea of them? A firm called Danbury has been converting the 'modern' version of the T2 made I think in Brazil. They have pretty good reliability and most of the original VW charm- amazing for a weekend trip, but not so much as a full time thing. I wouldn't have gone for the 7 or 8 metre plus motorhomes, personally- it would have to be 6 metres or less, like a standard commercial van. Its a difficult decision if you live in it full time- greater space versus the ability to get into more places. I agree about boats and motorhome meeting different needs, but lots of boat owners also have a soft spot for campervans- so I think there are some similarities in the mindsets of owners, even though the actual vehicles are very different. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 9:05:23 GMT
If part of your reasoning behind buying a boat is you think it will attract a partner, your quite mistaken. There are a lot of older bachelors on the cut. I think I might have given the wrong impression there. Its not that I see a boat as being attractive to a potential partner (it is very much a minority thing after all), but that the person might at least give it some thought as a lifestyle option. A 50ft boat means that a future relationship is at least possible (and you might might meet more people day to day as well), whereas a motorhome to a large extent rules out a long term relationship- it is a tiny niche of society. |
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Post by JohnV on May 29, 2020 9:12:25 GMT
as regard the running costs of a boat .... there are cheap options but it does so much depend on where you want to be and go.
both need insurance, fuel, heating and maintenance and without the money grabbing schemes of CRT or the EA, I don't think the costs are so massively different.
there are options but they take a bit of finding.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 9:30:37 GMT
I think its worth adding on this that the Camping and Caravan Club (CCC) manage a network of up to 2,000 locations for camping, typically in rural areas, part of a farmers field etc, and usually with only 5 or 6 places, and plenty of space- these are called certified locations I think (CLs). This type of campsite typically has no electricity (only water), which limits their appeal to many caravanners and motorhomers. So they are often very quiet, but even better they are very cheap, most around £15 per night or less. You can stay for up to 28 days at a cost of about 300-400, mostly in really nice quiet locations, and well away from the road and its many associated nuisances. Its still not cheap compared to a CC license say, but if you do that for half the year, it could be affordable and give you a lovely quiet retreat. So its not all bsy laybys on the A1 etc, there are plenty of very quiet spots, even when wild camping. The thing about wild camping is you know that if you stay there more than say 2 days, you are going to start running the risk of getting a knock, a rude local, a gang of kids, or a bobby. So there is that psychological pressure to always keep moving. There is also the Caravan and Motorhome Club (the motorhome bit added to the title about a year ago), they also have CLs, 5 vans only, mostly they do have electrickery and a toilet, sometimes a shower, all have water and an elsan point, some lovely locations. Price is similar, about £15 a night, it's going up slowly though. Our caravan hasn't had much use since we got the boat, compared to before, it sits happily on the drive, a tiny grp Freedom 2 berth, 750kg max, so it may be possible to tow it with an electric vehicle in the future, certainly a hybrid would do the job. Jim, I think you've hit on an issue which affects all combustion engined vehicles and craft, but particularly road vehicles. The govt are committed to ending the sale of all new combustion engined vehicles in 15 years from now, as part of the strategy to reduce the scale of the coming climate disasters. Certainly private buyers will be ruled out, even if commercials continue for a while for economic reasons. As those 15 years tick down, I feel we are more likely to see increasing tax on fuels (for private motorists), and the costs of running a vehicle will escalate. We've already seen the road tax for motorhomes increase to several thousand pounds, spread over the first 3 years of ownership. So even without the increasing charges (or outright exclusions) for diesel vehicles in urban areas, you have to say that the future looks bleak for people spending big on motorhomes- the resale values for one thing will plummet as they get more expensive to run. I do also wonder what it might mean for the thousands of people who currently live in converted vans in the UK. One can only imagine that this nomadic community will be forced off the roads by tax and fuel costs, and the increasing scarcity of used vehicles. The one potential salvation for mobile dwellers will be electric or alternative engines becoming affordable and practicable (in terms of range, charging points, etc). There are lots of promising-looking technologies, but as yet nothing that is ready and affordable. I am hoping none of this will impact boat owners, and my hope is based on them being a small minority, so not a significant contributor to national pollution levels, when taken as a whole. But that is just a hope, and it could be that the future of heavy steel craft is in question- because even with electric engines, what will recharge the large battery banks needed? Could solar do it all, even in winter? Could we see a new generation of lighter GRP narrowboats, that require less fuel or battery charge to drive them? |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 9:42:23 GMT
8 years ago I was torn between living in a camper or a boat. A camper is more versatile if you want to travel wherever you want but you're always worrying whether you're going to get woken up by the police in the mid hours. A decent sized boat is likely to offer more space wise and it's nice being beside the water all of the time. Another issue with living in a camper, is the worry of being caught over the limit when in charge of the vehicle, although on a camp site or pub car park you would probably be Ok. The bottom line is that I am so glad I bought the boat. However if needs must I would be happy to live in a camper still. For me, this minor but constantly nagging worry about getting a knock in the evening or the night (and asked to move on) would start to spoil the experience. It's only because I'm probably more thin-skinned than I should be, and there are thousands of full time motorhomers who sleep easy in car parks or laybys every night of the year- or at least claim to do so. Re the drink thing- the common view in motorhome forums is that if the keys are not in the ignition or at least the engine is not running, window blinds/curtains are pulled across, and you are in say pyjamas or slippers, and are clearly not preparing for or ready to drive the thing, it is almost unknown to be subject to a charge of being drunk in charge. It s probably a grey area but I cant remember reading any reports of charges being brought. |
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Post by Jim on May 29, 2020 10:04:34 GMT
AFAIK technically if you are in a vehicle on a public road with access to keys you can be breathalysed.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 10:21:03 GMT
AFAIK technically if you are in a vehicle on a public road with access to keys you can be breathalysed. I'm no expert but I feel sure you are right on that. But the reality is it just doesn't happen, if the reports from motorhome forums are anything to judge from. If you'd had a few drinks and were sat in the drivers seat with the engine running, or if it was say early afternoon, I think you might be in trouble if the police knocked. But in most other circumstances, and especially if you are clearly settled for the evening, the police will not attempt to breathalyse. My memory isnt great but I think I recall a mention of a case where the vehicle owner was acquitted because the police could not prove he intended to drive the vehicle, and he had evidence indicating he had no intention of driving it. But who knows- that was a statement on a forum, so to be fair I wouldnt make any claims as to its veracity. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 10:23:12 GMT
We have a boat and a tin tent, we use CL from C&CC for the tin tent there are some very quiet and cheap ones if you look. Costs is an interesting thing, tin tent cost £3000 its 19 years old and in excellent condition. Costs per year are less than £500 including storage, insurance and a yearly service. Boat is 27 years old and running costs over time are 10 times that plus £43k we paid for it. The boat will be going in the next few years as its no longer our home and the way that navigation systems are going we have had the best years. Thanks Loddon- it feels for me as if it is an either/or situation, as I would want to spend 50% of my time living in each if I had both- and having one of them sat there for 6 months in every year seems wasteful. So it would be a boat for a few years, then (maybe) move into a motorhome. I must say I never 'did the numbers' on the two options in a detailed way. My guess is that as a full time living option, they vary wildly depending on how big you spend. For example, I remember at one point casting envious eyes at 60 grand A class motorhomes, but at that price level you will lose a shedload of money very quickly, and after a 20 year ownership it probably wont fetch more than 10k. Clearly in that case the numbers are going to be bad, but those buy them can afford it and are ok with that. Its certainly an eye opened to see the boat running costs are so much greater than the van- although as a full time living option, the van would start to get dearer, if you added in a month's stay at a CL here and there? I deliberately excluded costs when out and about as I class them as day to day living. As for the boat costs I have, as we are trying to get there, included the cost of a repaint, £10k which is roughly every 10 years. Yes it can be DIY but I don't do painting....... It does help that we don't live on board any more so both are just recreational cost plays a far bigger part. As for motorhome v caravan, much as I love RVs I wouldn't have one as you are tied to wherever you stop whereas with a caravan you can go off in the car to "explore ". |
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Post by naughtyfox on May 29, 2020 11:00:17 GMT
Buy Loddon's boat! There is a 15% discount for Thunderboat members.
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