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Post by TonyDunkley on May 31, 2020 10:08:52 GMT
No, . . not some sensational revelations from the world of inland boating, . . just another generous helping of the confusion and ignorance that seems to rear it's unnecessary head on most occasions whenever the need arises to check a diesel engine's injection timing via the ''spill cut-off" method.
Over on CWDF there's a thread titled "Lister JP3 timing problem" which, along with the original poster's engine, has been going nowhere since shortly after midday last Friday.
Apparently, the owner has done some DIY ''overhaul'' work on his JP3M and has improved it to the extent that it won't run at all now. From his description of it's refusal to start and run it is almost certain that the injection timing has been disturbed and now needs re-setting, . . a process taking only a few minutes, and which couldn't be quicker and easier than on the JP series Lister engines with their open flywheels and externally mounted injection pumps driven off the end of the camshaft via an external rotationally adjustable coupling.
So, . . have the resident CWDF 'experts' advised that the very first task in the process of getting this engine going again is to check the injection timing ? . . . No !
Have the resident CWDF 'experts' explained how to check the injection timing by the spill cut-off method ? . . . No !
Have the resident CWDF 'experts' explained what the spill cut-off method is? . . . No !
Would any TB member, allowed and willing to post on CWDF, and reading this, please invite the owner to come over here and join a boating forum where he can get some useful and practical advice.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 10:29:27 GMT
I'll nominate @nemesis for it
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Post by TonyDunkley on May 31, 2020 10:36:37 GMT
I'll nominate @nemesis for it Good idea, . . he's sure to have something useful and significant to contribute !
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Post by cygnus on May 31, 2020 10:58:03 GMT
Done that Tony. Said you weren't too impressed with the advice he was getting.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:02:13 GMT
I'll nominate @nemesis for it Never claimed to know anything about Listers but if I wasn't so involved with Seagulls I'd be massively tempted to have a go at a single cylinder example.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:05:42 GMT
I'll nominate @nemesis for it Never claimed to know anything about Listers but if I wasn't so involved with Seagulls I'd be massively tempted to have a go at a single cylinder example. No I meant you could post on canalworld
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:08:59 GMT
Never claimed to know anything about Listers but if I wasn't so involved with Seagulls I'd be massively tempted to have a go at a single cylinder example. No I meant you could post on canalworld Eek!
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Post by TonyDunkley on May 31, 2020 14:07:45 GMT
Done that Tony. Said you weren't too impressed with the advice he was getting. Thanks for doing that, Joe. I think the CWDF poster could well have come very close to identifying the problem himself when he posted the following sometime yesterday: - " The cotter pin bolt that holds the coupling to the engine drive was very worn and the nut split when I undid it. I have replaced this bolt with another now wondering if that has put the timing out. There is very little play in the coupling. It poss is a WW thread as I didnt have a nut to fit it. We did try turning the pump cam 180 incase it was out that way but nothing." The 'cotter pin' he refers to is in fact a pinch bolt through the boss of the driving half of the injection pump drive coupling. That half of the coupling is located on the pump drive shaft (for injection timing purposes) with a small key. If that key is badly worn, sheared off, or missing completely, then the injection timing could well have slipped whilst he was replacing what he's calling a 'cotter pin'. There may be other problems affecting starting and running, but for some reason best known to themselves the CWDF 'experts' don't seem to share my belief that the time to begin looking for those other faults is after first spending a few minutes on a spill cut-off test to establish that the injection timing is spot-on.
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Post by ianbruce on May 31, 2020 19:53:07 GMT
Hi Tony its Ianbruce over from the darkside. My woes with the big green thing are continuing. My overhaul amounted to an Oil change, investigation as to why No 3 Cylinder was overheating and why the governor didnt seem to work. My JP3M has a deck wash pump driven by a slave gear off the crank cog. I removed the head from no 3 to find it was blocked by limescale in the water passages. On opening up the crank case and removal of the housing under the fast slow lever I found the slave gear was minus lots of teeth the crank cog was fine. I mopped out the oil sludge, had a new gear made , disolved out the limescale and put it back together and cleaned out the day tank and filters. 18mths after it last run tried to start it no joy. Found there were issues with the injectors and had new nozzels fitted and tested. Still no joy. I did not touch the cam or crank. There appeared to be no problems with the gov just sticking a bit. Timing was next checked . I am familiar with the spill method after bleeding the thing to death I set the timing to all the marks. No joy, by moving the vernier to full retard got it to chase the starter with lots of grey smoke . Today reset the spill timing and got it to fire but not run with a slight retard. Next step is a compression test. I did put some redex in the cylinders in case rings stuck. Any advice would be great.
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Post by ianbruce on May 31, 2020 20:06:19 GMT
The reason I called the pinch bolt a cotterpin was there is a slot in the drive shaft that the bolt fits into so even without the key you cannot put the coupling on wrong and it cannot slip. The key is new and un worn the slots it fits are worn on both the shaft and the coupling giving some play but it has previously not slipped and ran fine.
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Post by ianbruce on May 31, 2020 20:11:27 GMT
Took the cover off the pump and watched no1 pump rise on the cam at the same time all timing marks came in line. So pump is not out of time
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 20:14:19 GMT
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Post by Telemachus on May 31, 2020 20:28:39 GMT
Sorry, too late, I think Tony has died. Well he is 113 years old, so not too surprising. He had a good life. Apparently, although I’m too young to remember it.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 31, 2020 20:31:18 GMT
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Post by thebfg on Jun 1, 2020 1:16:24 GMT
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