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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 4, 2020 16:59:40 GMT
. . . . . . The day tank was refilled from the boats main tank. The day tank holds 20 litres. The fuel is about 4 years old and has bug stuff added both at source and myself. I have asked wether it gets old but everyone has said no. I have considered rigging up a temporary fuel supply with fresh fuel as I know 20 % of this bio stuff degrades within weeks of leaving the refinery. Anyone claiming that diesel fuel, especially the bio-blends and low-sulphur stuff that the environmental loonies foist on us nowadays, doesn't degrade in storage is talking through their backsides ! The degradation takes the form of serious reduction in the ignition quality of the fuel and is the result of oxidation which progresses far more rapidly in high temperatures. The biocides the oil companies, and end users, treat gas oil and diesel with to remedy the 'bug' problem does just precisely that, and NOTHING else, . . it neither improves nor preserves the fuel's ignition and combustion characteristics. Among the symptoms resulting from the use of diesel fuel stored for any more than 12 months are smokey (black) exhausts and poor starting. You're trying to get your engine going on 4 year old fuel that was further subjected to last Summer's record temperatures since it last ran on it, . . . no wonder it's reluctant to light up ! I think the best plan, before doing anything else at all, would be to drain every drop of that old stuff out of the day service tank, and the engine's fuel system, including filters and injectors, and treat it to a jerrycan full of fresh diesel from a roadside filling station. I would avoid diesel from boatyards or marinas for the moment - with the Cov-19 shutdown following on from the reduced boating activity through the Winter, the stuff they'll be selling could well have been hanging about in their storage tanks since last Autumn, . . or perhaps even longer. If you're still having starting problems after changing the fuel in the day service tank, I'm only about 25 minutes drive away from Loughborough and could come over and have a look at it with you. My mobile numbers are 07903 063179 or 07553 294325.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 17:09:09 GMT
I've got several boats with dinosaur oil burning engines and another two with electric motors.
It does seem very bizarre on the face of it that humans with their enormous brains would accept the ridiculously inefficient and dirty propulsion system which is a diesel engine. It takes the oxygen and fills the air with nasties.
But we do, and I for one quite like it as it is the only workable way to get a boat moving around specially if you do long hours.
It's very odd though.
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Post by ianbruce on Jun 4, 2020 20:30:20 GMT
Magnetman.....Right now if I could lift 2000lb Id throw the Lister over the side and fit electric. SWMBO would probably throw me with it! But I do love the smell of diesel fumes, reminds me of ice cream vans.
Thanks Tony.....weekend sorted then I,ll get back to you when ive done it and hopefully fired up. May rig up a temporary day tank first my mates got a spare one. PS. We are currently over Bosworth Marina on the Ashby returning to Pillings Lock in the near future. If I need to take up your kind offer I would gladly pay your time and travel.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 5, 2020 9:21:11 GMT
Thanks Tony.....weekend sorted then I,ll get back to you when ive done it and hopefully fired up. May rig up a temporary day tank first my mates got a spare one. PS. We are currently over Bosworth Marina on the Ashby returning to Pillings Lock in the near future. If I need to take up your kind offer I would gladly pay your time and travel. I'm reasonably confident that the fuel will prove to be the problem, but if not, driving over to Market Bosworth to work on a boat engine will bring back a few memories from long ago. The last time I had to do that was about this time of year in 1968 to repair a National in a pair of empty boats on their way up to a wharf near Measham to load coal for Dickinson's paper mills at Croxley. The engine had developed a major oil leak, close to where the pressure feed to the mains and big-ends passes through three hollow studs and banjo fittings along the joint between the crank-bed and the block, and pumped all it's oil into the engine hole bilge. The loss of oil pressure had been noticed and the engine had been stopped before it ran a bearing, but a complete stripdown was necessary to replace the failed joint. In the event, the oil leak turned out to have been quite fortuitous. The thick wall whitemetal big-ends were full of fatigue cracks, one of them was already breaking up and would soon have failed anyway, but the oil leak led to it being found before there was any serious damage to the crankpin.
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Post by ianbruce on Jun 5, 2020 15:40:25 GMT
Hi Tony, conducted a pressure test on the JP3 this morning and could only manage 200psi for each cylinder (600 to start 450 to run) which is way too low. Verdict being the starter motor is turning too slow. An electrical test saw 13v from fully charged battery dropping to 8v when starter engaged indicating a fault with the starter. I can rig up a temporary fuel supply with fresh fuel tomorrow and see if it will fire before stripping out the starter motor. Ive been told of a shop in Victoria Rd Leicester called Greens who can recondition it.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 5, 2020 19:10:22 GMT
Hi Tony, conducted a pressure test on the JP3 this morning and could only manage 200psi for each cylinder (600 to start 450 to run) which is way too low. Verdict being the starter motor is turning too slow. An electrical test saw 13v from fully charged battery dropping to 8v when starter engaged indicating a fault with the starter. I can rig up a temporary fuel supply with fresh fuel tomorrow and see if it will fire before stripping out the starter motor. Ive been told of a shop in Victoria Rd Leicester called Greens who can recondition it. Compression test figures without accompanying information on the circumstances/conditions under which they were achieved can be very misleading and unreliable. Readings of 600 psi (C/O valves in) and 450 psi (C/O valves out) built up over 5 or 6 compression strokes may be achievable on a warm engine in first class condition, I wouldn't know, because I've never carried out a psi reading compression test on a Lister JP or any other make or type of engine from that era. The standard method for checking and assessing compression in those days was by 'bouncing' the engine between compressions and listening for valve leakage and piston blow-by. There is, however, no way that anything remotely near those figures of 600 psi and 450 psi is going to be had from a cold engine that hasn't run for 18 months. On the other hand, consistently close readings from all three cylinders does indicate that there probably isn't any serious leakage past either valves or rings on any or all cylinders, . . . however, and rather more significantly, the 200 psi recorded today has previously succeeded in igniting the fuel being injected, as evidenced by the engine firing and producing black smoke during the earlier attempts to get it started ! The voltages quoted during cranking may also not be telling the full story in the absence of any information about the battery. How old is it, and how much of it's original capacity for producing a high cranking current does it still have, where were the voltages taken from, and, . . did you compare cranking speeds and voltages with the decompressors in or out ? Also, the gearbox can have a significant effect on cold cranking speed, . . what type is it ? If it's the standard Lister Blackstone manual box fitted to JP's and JK's, they can create an awful lot of drag from the clutch plates and brakeband when cold.
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Post by ianbruce on Jun 5, 2020 21:18:33 GMT
Hi Tony, The 600 and 450psi figures are quoted from the book so are probably best suited to a new engine. All cylinders had the same readings which I agree tends to suggest the rings arnt the problem. We did break down in Manchester once and the engineer said that the motor was weak but the engine has almost always started first time with all 3 in compression. The battery is 'new' I bought it last time we went out 18 mths ago ago and I kept it fully charged since. The test was performed with the injectors out and the gear box is the standard Lister forward and back no reduction box and it is in neutral. Difficult to find but its not turning the prop. The starter after a prolonged attempt smokes a bit. I will try fresh fuel over the next fews days but I broke the Mrs too she was rushed to hosp this evening. I will let you know the result of the fresh fuel as soon as I have tried it.
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Post by quaysider on Jun 6, 2020 14:35:57 GMT
Just butting in here to say - without blowing smoke up anyone's bummocks, For all the teasing/flack Tony gets - you/he does put in a lot of effort to "helping" folks with his knowledge/experience.
It's what makes me like boaty people
As you were.
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Post by patty on Jun 6, 2020 15:52:04 GMT
Just butting in here to say - without blowing smoke up anyone's bummocks, For all the teasing/flack Tony gets - you/he does put in a lot of effort to "helping" folks with his knowledge/experience. It's what makes me like boaty people As you were. U r Right... Just saying....
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Post by ianbruce on Jun 9, 2020 21:25:44 GMT
Hi, I'm back, Mrs G had a full blown heart attack on Friday 3 stents later shes now back home so I can mess with my engine. Will try fresh fuel tomorrow and get back to you. Fingers crossed.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jun 9, 2020 21:32:52 GMT
Crumbs! Sorry to hear that! All the best...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 21:35:51 GMT
Get well soon Mrs Bruce ... be kind to yourself too ianbruce ... stressful times. Rog
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Post by ianbruce on Jun 9, 2020 21:38:58 GMT
Thanks guys it would be good to get out and about
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 9, 2020 21:42:01 GMT
Hi, I'm back, Mrs G had a full blown heart attack on Friday 3 stents later shes now back home so I can mess with my engine. Will try fresh fuel tomorrow and get back to you. Fingers crossed. Oh shit, but glad she’s now on the mend.
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Post by thebfg on Jun 10, 2020 1:18:40 GMT
Just butting in here to say - without blowing smoke up anyone's bummocks, For all the teasing/flack Tony gets - you/he does put in a lot of effort to "helping" folks with his knowledge/experience. It's what makes me like boaty people As you were. He is certainly an unsung hero and I for one dont get involved in the little spats as he deserves more respect. ianbruce hope the mrs is on the mend.
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