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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 2, 2020 16:47:21 GMT
I have an intermittent problem starting my engine. I say intermittent, it first raised its head over 18 months ago! Sometimes, but not always, when I try to start my engine I get a 'click', as if the starter motor is stuck. Sometimes 2 or 3 efforts result in 'click' then the engine turns over and starts. Other times it clicks half a dozen times before starting, other times I'll start it a dozen times without the dreaded click. So there's nothing consistent about the problem. I've found that spraying a little wd40 over the battery contacts, isolator, starter motor connection and earth to engine the leaving for a couple of minutes results in more clean starts and less clicks. This suggests to me that there's an issue with a connection. I attacked the job today. I cleaned both battery connectors, both sides of the isolator, the earth to engine connection and the 2 connections to the starter motor with wire wool. Everything nice and bright when I'd finished and bolted down nicely. Tried to start the engine after this; 'click' twice before it started.
I'm starting to think it's a problem with the starter motor although wd40 easing the problem is at the back of my mind.
Any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 16:53:13 GMT
Dodgy connection somewhere.
Could be the thin wire to the back of the solenoid me thinks.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 2, 2020 17:47:33 GMT
If you hold the key at the start position, I presume you just get the one click, not a click click click “machine gun” repetition?
If so, it means the problem is nothing to do with the battery connections.
It could possibly be the fat battery positive cable connection to the starter motor. Open the isolator and try removing and cleaning up that connection. Just spraying gunge on it won’t do anything! But most likely it isn’t that, only worth checking because it’s easy to do so.
The click means the solenoid is operating. The solenoid is a chunky relay that connects battery power to the starter motor internals. If there is a single click and nothing else happens while you hold the key over, it means that despite the solenoid coil activating and the solenoid contactor moving, there is no circuit being made. This will likely be either because the solenoid contacts are worn / burnt away, or there is an internal break in the circuitry inside the starter, most likely the connections between the brushes and the commutator.
Really, it doesn’t matter that much exactly what it is because the solution is to replace or overhaul the starter motor, which also comprises the solenoid.
To prove the point, hold the key over and then tap the starter motor with something like a broom handle or whatever you have to hand. It will probably spring into life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 18:13:23 GMT
I had this exact problem not long ago and it turned out to be one of the main battery wires was loose at the battery end.
The thin wire going to the solenoid can cause problems as well.
It seems to be worth checking all connections before removing the starter motor and having it refurbished. Slightly easier to do and will rule out this as the possible problem.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 2, 2020 19:19:00 GMT
If you short between the switch supply and the main power supply on the end of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it works, it's the switch wiring or switch.
If you hold key in start position, tap the solenoid with a hard plastic screwdriver handle and it works the solenoid is sticky.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 19:25:55 GMT
If you short between the switch supply and the main power supply on the end of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it works, it's the switch wiring or switch. . I wish all engines had to be started like that. It's so exciting and helps with feeling like a real man. It's the sparks. And the risk. Wonderful.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 2, 2020 19:32:59 GMT
If you short between the switch supply and the main power supply on the end of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it works, it's the switch wiring or switch. . I wish all engines had to be started like that. It's so exciting and helps with feeling like a real man. It's the sparks. And the risk. Wonderful. It never fails to make me jump. In a boat there's no chance of accidentally running yourself over so isn't quite as manly as a van. Being able to perform these two tests with an otherwise useless blunt screwdriver I find appealing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 19:35:40 GMT
Most real men would make sure the vehicle is in neutral and put bricks or other objects in front of the wheels.
I have spanners with burn marks on them.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jun 2, 2020 20:37:19 GMT
I'm starting to think it's a problem with the starter motor although wd40 easing the problem is at the back of my mind. How old is the starter? WD-40? You know it's the starter. Get new starter. Or... how old is the starter battery? A new one of those (also or or). WD-40 = religion.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 2, 2020 21:34:11 GMT
If you short between the switch supply and the main power supply on the end of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it works, it's the switch wiring or switch. If you hold key in start position, tap the solenoid with a hard plastic screwdriver handle and it works the solenoid is sticky. I tried previously, tapping the solenoid with the key held in the start position following a 'click', nothing happened. This shorting business, just so I understand: The main power supply goes to a lug on the body of the starter motor, together with a slightly thinner red wire, then there's a much thinner wire that fixes to the solenoid with a connector. What do I join to what to test?
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Post by kris on Jun 2, 2020 21:36:42 GMT
I have an intermittent problem starting my engine. I say intermittent, it first raised its head over 18 months ago! Sometimes, but not always, when I try to start my engine I get a 'click', as if the starter motor is stuck. Sometimes 2 or 3 efforts result in 'click' then the engine turns over and starts. Other times it clicks half a dozen times before starting, other times I'll start it a dozen times without the dreaded click. So there's nothing consistent about the problem. I've found that spraying a little wd40 over the battery contacts, isolator, starter motor connection and earth to engine the leaving for a couple of minutes results in more clean starts and less clicks. This suggests to me that there's an issue with a connection. I attacked the job today. I cleaned both battery connectors, both sides of the isolator, the earth to engine connection and the 2 connections to the starter motor with wire wool. Everything nice and bright when I'd finished and bolted down nicely. Tried to start the engine after this; 'click' twice before it started. I'm starting to think it's a problem with the starter motor although wd40 easing the problem is at the back of my mind. Any ideas? I suggest you take your engine out and leave it on your back deck for six weeks waiting for a grumpy old fart to come and have a look at it.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 3, 2020 8:07:06 GMT
If you short between the switch supply and the main power supply on the end of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it works, it's the switch wiring or switch. If you hold key in start position, tap the solenoid with a hard plastic screwdriver handle and it works the solenoid is sticky. I tried previously, tapping the solenoid with the key held in the start position following a 'click', nothing happened. This shorting business, just so I understand: The main power supply goes to a lug on the body of the starter motor, together with a slightly thinner red wire, then there's a much thinner wire that fixes to the solenoid with a connector. What do I join to what to test? A photo would help. On the solenoid there should be 2 posts, probably M8 (13mm spanner) and a spade connector. 1 post will carry the supply from the battery, always live. The other post will have a braided cable from solenoid to the starter itself - live only when solenoid does it's stuff. The spade will be the connection from the ignition switch. So what you're trying to do is provide 12v to the spade without using the ignition switch. You could make a lead with a spade on one end, attach it instead of the wire from the switch and dab the other end on your battery +ve. Same effect but more mucking about. There can be additional cables/wires on the 12v supply post, it's often used as a convenient place to pick up 12v to save having a mess of wires on the battery terminal. Hope that helps.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 3, 2020 8:37:42 GMT
you can't go wrong
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 3, 2020 9:09:47 GMT
I tried previously, tapping the solenoid with the key held in the start position following a 'click', nothing happened. This shorting business, just so I understand: The main power supply goes to a lug on the body of the starter motor, together with a slightly thinner red wire, then there's a much thinner wire that fixes to the solenoid with a connector. What do I join to what to test? A photo would help. On the solenoid there should be 2 posts, probably M8 (13mm spanner) and a spade connector. 1 post will carry the supply from the battery, always live. The other post will have a braided cable from solenoid to the starter itself - live only when solenoid does it's stuff. The spade will be the connection from the ignition switch. So what you're trying to do is provide 12v to the spade without using the ignition switch. You could make a lead with a spade on one end, attach it instead of the wire from the switch and dab the other end on your battery +ve. Same effect but more mucking about. There can be additional cables/wires on the 12v supply post, it's often used as a convenient place to pick up 12v to save having a mess of wires on the battery terminal. Hope that helps. Cheers that makes a lot more sense now. I omitted cleaning up the spade connector on the solenoid. I've done that now. It was a bit mucky. I started it a few times after, no problems, no 'clicks'. If it starts happening again I can run a wire from the battery to the spade connector on the solenoid to test it.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 3, 2020 10:07:41 GMT
A photo would help. On the solenoid there should be 2 posts, probably M8 (13mm spanner) and a spade connector. 1 post will carry the supply from the battery, always live. The other post will have a braided cable from solenoid to the starter itself - live only when solenoid does it's stuff. The spade will be the connection from the ignition switch. So what you're trying to do is provide 12v to the spade without using the ignition switch. You could make a lead with a spade on one end, attach it instead of the wire from the switch and dab the other end on your battery +ve. Same effect but more mucking about. There can be additional cables/wires on the 12v supply post, it's often used as a convenient place to pick up 12v to save having a mess of wires on the battery terminal. Hope that helps. Cheers that makes a lot more sense now. I omitted cleaning up the spade connector on the solenoid. I've done that now. It was a bit mucky. I started it a few times after, no problems, no 'clicks'. If it starts happening again I can run a wire from the battery to the spade connector on the solenoid to test it. I think you found the problem. Got to love a £free solution. BTW WD40 is a water dispersant (WD) and wouldn't have helped during the unfeasibly dry weather we've had lately.
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