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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 10:19:42 GMT
Dodgy connection somewhere. Could be the thin wire to the back of the solenoid me thinks.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 3, 2020 11:09:10 GMT
I've (hopefully) solved this but still don't understand. If there was a bad connection to the solenoid, as seems likely, why did I get a 'click', rather than it just been dead? Does a click not indicate there was power to it and if there is power to it, why did it not just work? Telemachus suggested something along these lines in his post. All very confusing to me!
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Post by JohnV on Jun 3, 2020 11:49:12 GMT
I've (hopefully) solved this but still don't understand. If there was a bad connection to the solenoid, as seems likely, why did I get a 'click', rather than it just been dead? Does a click not indicate there was power to it and if there is power to it, why did it not just work? Telemachus suggested something along these lines in his post. All very confusing to me! the solenoid has to "snap" in hard, to both operate the spline cog on the worm and then make the contact as well. low volts on the coil means that it slows down as it operates the mechanical and fails to make a good electrical connection to the motor
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 12:44:46 GMT
Another problem that sometimes turns up is that the thin wire is not thick enough to carry the current to energise the solenoid.
It depends how long it is.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 3, 2020 12:57:56 GMT
I've (hopefully) solved this but still don't understand. If there was a bad connection to the solenoid, as seems likely, why did I get a 'click', rather than it just been dead? Does a click not indicate there was power to it and if there is power to it, why did it not just work? Telemachus suggested something along these lines in his post. All very confusing to me! There are actually 3 connections on the solenoid, although only apparently 2 wires. One fat wire from the battery. One thinner wire that sends power to the solenoid coil to pull the contactor in. But a third βinternalβ fat wire that takes the power from the other side of the contactor to the starter internals. If either of these fat wires is making a bad connection, whilst the thinner wire is making a good connection, there can be a click and no action. Generally bad connection is caused by a build up of corrosion on the mating surfaces and spraying something onto the outside doesnβt achieve anything.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 3, 2020 13:02:22 GMT
...and it takes quite a few amps down the little wire to energise, a mate measured his car one once, IIRC about 10A. If you add a bunch of resistance the amps dives.
My alternator on my van I thought was bust once, turned out I'd messed the earth path up by powder coating all the brackets then carefully assembling so as not to damage the powder coating. No resistance on the earth path until used in anger then LOADS. fixed it with an earth lead on the alt casing...after replacing the alternator and battery. Doh!
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Post by brummieboy on Jun 3, 2020 13:12:41 GMT
I had the same last year. It persisted after all the checks, sometimes on cold start, sometimes hot. As soon as I got back home, starter off and took in for service. New solenoid and general clean out and good as new. The contacts on the solenoid that carry the starter current were scorched. This is the second starter I've had in 30 years, and they were only available service exchange 10 years ago, and then cost Β£300. The first one was serviced a couple of times for the same problem. You can't bump start a boat, especially with a hydraulic gear box!
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 7, 2020 22:38:15 GMT
The clicking has returned, arghhh! Before I take the motor off and pay to get it serviced, might it be worth taking the thin lead off the solenoid engine switch to 'on' and measure the voltage? I think I should expect a steady voltage roughly matching the battery voltage and if not, it's either a problem at the switch, or the multi connector between the switch and the solenoid. Hope that makes sense?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 23:01:06 GMT
The clicking has returned, arghhh! Before I take the motor off and pay to get it serviced, might it be worth taking the thin lead off the solenoid engine switch to 'on' and measure the voltage? I think I should expect a steady voltage roughly matching the battery voltage and if not, it's either a problem at the switch, or the multi connector between the switch and the solenoid. Hope that makes sense? I'm not sure if I commented on this but yes, it's always good to check the voltage is what you need where you want it. I had exactly the same problem a few years back. I could sort it for a while by hitting the the starter motor with something hard (school boy trick). When that stopped working I replaced the solenoid, no joy So in the end I got the starter motor refurbished. That worked. I think it was worn brushes.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 7, 2020 23:17:54 GMT
The clicking has returned, arghhh! Before I take the motor off and pay to get it serviced, might it be worth taking the thin lead off the solenoid engine switch to 'on' and measure the voltage? I think I should expect a steady voltage roughly matching the battery voltage and if not, it's either a problem at the switch, or the multi connector between the switch and the solenoid. Hope that makes sense? Not really, if I understand you correctly you are proposing to remove the thin wire from the starter solenoid and then operate the key,then check for 12v or so? No point, we know it is vaguely working (the clicks) and by disconnecting the wire you remove the load and hence even if there was quite a high resistance somewhere, you would still get 12v. Perhaps worth checking the voltage on that terminal with the wire connected and key switch operated to start position. One would expect to get perhaps 1/2v less than the battery voltage.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 8, 2020 8:57:48 GMT
The clicking has returned, arghhh! Before I take the motor off and pay to get it serviced, might it be worth taking the thin lead off the solenoid engine switch to 'on' and measure the voltage? I think I should expect a steady voltage roughly matching the battery voltage and if not, it's either a problem at the switch, or the multi connector between the switch and the solenoid. Hope that makes sense? Your starter motor is exhibiting the typical symptoms that go with corroded, dirty and/or dry pinion and shaft splines. Prior to ceasing to work completely, starter motors in that condition will often go through a period of intermittently failing to work if any of their electrical connections are less than perfect and conducting even slightly reduced voltages and current. In the notes I made after travelling up to Middlewich in August 2017 to diagnose the engine problems you were having at the time, and to prepare the engine for lifting out for repair, there is reference to a then relatively recently fitted new starter motor and the visible evidence of long term, and continuing, leakage of water onto the starter motor from the area underneath the engine heat exchanger and it's connections. Do you know if the origins of the moisture and signs of the beginnings of external corrosion on the starter motor were traced and remedied at the same time as the engine was re-ringed, or were you and your repairers of choice as equally unenthusiastic about tracing and eliminating the source of the moisture as were both they and you with regard to establishing and remedying the reason for the engine having become so badly affected with a full set of gummed-up, stuck and/or broken piston rings, . . preferring instead the option of hurriedly throwing everything back together and sending you on your whingeing way as quickly as possible ?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 8, 2020 9:45:51 GMT
Well cheers Tony, sorry there's ill feeling. Yes, the slow leak was simply an ill fitting cap on top of the heat exchanger. This was remedied by buying a new one (rip off) from the Vetus place there. This was fitted when the top end was rebuilt.
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