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Post by lollygagger on Jun 3, 2020 19:14:20 GMT
Do you really think that much consideration is given ? I fear those who litter aren't bad people ... they simply don't think ... I don't want this so I'll drop it ... just lazy. Rog I'd argue that it isn't just laziness. It's more about not giving a shit - start working out why that is then progress can be made. And I'd argue, for younger people anyway it's about being seen to not give a shit. Re Bodgers example, show off kid chucks bottle being the big I am, when made to fetch it his mates laughed at him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 19:17:22 GMT
We don't disagree then @blacksheep ... littering isn't a positive act of defilement, more lack of any thought at all.
Unfashionable as it may be, I have to blame parents.
There were seven of us kids, and we were taught not to litter, and actually encouraged to pick litter up ... it was a competetive game.
Perhaps that is not instilled enough.
Rog
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 3, 2020 19:54:43 GMT
We don't disagree then ... littering isn't a positive act of defilement. Unfashionable as it may be, I have to blame parents. There were seven of us kids, and we were taught not to litter, and actually encouraged to pick litter up ... it was a competetive game. Perhaps that is not instilled enough. Rog One thing Rog is the huge increase in consuming while outside the home of packaged food, sweets, drink, water, takeaways, coffee, beer in cans not returnable bottles...and no bins in a lot of places which started after the IRA bombings. When I was a lad a bottle of pop was a rare treat, chips once a week, sweets on Saturday... and there was always a bin not far away. There was less consuming all round. Just look at all the fat kids nowadays,they don't get like that by only eating an apple between meals...so after much deep thought, I blame fat people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 20:02:47 GMT
You may be right ... but that's just increasing the opportunity to litter beyond what our generation knew as kids.
Vandalism is a positive act ... 'I will do this because I choose to'.
Littering is just uncaring laziness.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 20:11:51 GMT
We don't disagree then @blacksheep ... littering isn't a positive act of defilement, more lack of any thought at all. Unfashionable as it may be, I have to blame parents.
There were seven of us kids, and we were taught not to litter, and actually encouraged to pick litter up ... it was a competetive game. Perhaps that is not instilled enough. Rog The current crop of parents are more likely to be the biggest culprits - solve that issue and you might start solving littering.
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Post by Trina on Jun 3, 2020 20:49:12 GMT
We live in Bearwood West Mids & for quite a few lockdown weeks,the floor was littered with chucked away masks & gloves.π Suddenly,they are not there! Is this because folk are being more caring or because they do not care any more about their own health ? It really is odd as there are very few masks/ gloves to be seen on the floor any more.
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Post by duncan on Jun 3, 2020 21:01:15 GMT
Do you really think that much consideration is given ? I fear those who litter aren't bad people ... they simply don't think ... I don't want this so I'll drop it ... just lazy. Rog I'd argue that it isn't just laziness. It's more about not giving a shit - start working out why that is then progress can be made. More than that, there are people who think that by leaving their litter where it lies they are keeping someone else in employment, clearing up after them. The same people who are rude to shop workers, waiting and bar staff - by buying goods from you I am keeping you in work so can say what I wish and act how I wish.
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Post by ianali on Jun 3, 2020 21:20:12 GMT
We don't disagree then Β @blacksheep ... littering isn't a positive act of defilement, more lack of any thought at all. Unfashionable as it may be, I have to blame parents. There were seven of us kids, and we were taught not to litter, and actually encouraged to pick litter up ... it was a competetive game. Perhaps that is not instilled enough. Rog I blame the parents as well. Will add that I think the whole littering and general antisocial behaviour started some time ago. Not sure itβs any worse now than it was say thirty years ago. Kids today, many are fine, some not so. My offspring would not leave litter, nor would most of their friends.
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Post by patty on Jun 4, 2020 9:56:36 GMT
I try to get my head round the concept of littering. I have concluded that it is a worse crime than vandalism (at least for everyone except the victim of the vandalism), because it is quite motiveless. At least vandalism is (I assume) the result of a thought process involving anger, revenge, jealousy, whatever, and involves some motive even if it is destructive and negative. Littering is simply lazy mindless bollox that impacts on everyone in the local community.
I visited Blagdon Lake with the dogs a few years ago. There is footpath access to one corner of the lake - you can walk around the shore for about a mile and then through a rough wood before ending up in a sloping field with lovely views across the water. Nobody would get there casually - you have to make a real effort to get there. When I got to the field the dogs were off - they homed in on a pile of rubbish which turned out to be the packaging from a visit to KFC - about a dozen servings I would guess. Why would anyone make an effort to find a lovely picnic location and then spoil it by not taking the rubbish home with them? The location would suggest that this was not the action of a group of scrotes living on a sink estate - I assume the folk would have been fairly well heeled and familiar with out-of-the-way beauty spots.
Another time I was walking along the bank of a stream in our local wood. There was a schools charity walk going on and a group of three youngsters were walking on the path on the other side of the stream. They didn't see me because of the thick foliage. One of the lads was clearly the bigwig, wearing what appeared to be brand new designer trainers. He threw his empty water bottle into the stream. I called out and he stopped in his tracks. I told him to get down into the stream and pick up his bottle. His mates seemed to be highly amused as he clambered down and got his smart footwear muddied. I walked on and noticed a couple of adults sitting on a bench and i asked them if they were involved in the walk, and they confirmed they were teachers overseeing the activity. I asked them if they had heard of the countryside code - they didn't have a clue what I was referring to. I asked them if they briefed the kids on matters of HSE before they were started the walk. Again they didn't have clue. When I explained what I had witnessed they immediately responded that it wasn't a problem - one of their own duties was to pick up after the kids! That is modern education for you !!
The council has signs saying Β£70 fine but who has ever been apprehended? When I was a lad the signs read KEEP BRITAIN TIDY - it worked for me and most of my generation. It was a matter of pride in our country and environment. We need a return to the concept of pride and shame - enforcement is impossible.
It's a status thing. Like demanding respect without earning it. Putting litter in bins or carrying it home is for softies, for people who OBEY RULES. People who litter regard themselves above that and would embarrassed to be seen acting responsibly for the common good which would be seen as a sign of weakness. Hope that helps. I dunno if there is that much thought process.....I think they are just pig ignorant and lazy so n so's There is an area between 2 bays where doggy do's mess is awful..the worst bit of path anywhere. My daughter claims its the 'elite' who live in the area are 'too posh to pick up poo'
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Post by patty on Jun 4, 2020 10:08:18 GMT
We don't disagree then @blacksheep ... littering isn't a positive act of defilement, more lack of any thought at all. Unfashionable as it may be, I have to blame parents. There were seven of us kids, and we were taught not to litter, and actually encouraged to pick litter up ... it was a competetive game. Perhaps that is not instilled enough. Rog I blame the parents as well. Will add that I think the whole littering and general antisocial behaviour started some time ago. Not sure itβs any worse now than it was say thirty years ago. Kids today, many are fine, some not so. My offspring would not leave litter, nor would most of their friends. I feel a bit uncomfortable about allocating 'blame' on parents for all kids misdemeanours which seems to be a trend. I tried really hard to install in all mine a sense of right..to never litter(tbh I don't think any of them do throw litter now but in the past they may have) and to behave in a way that didn't cause major problems..well that one didn't work out...police, court, failure to finish school, drugs etc etc..2 of them nicknamed 'The Krays'....All I'm saying is you can do everything and I did and it can still go wrong. Sometimes their 'peers' are far more important than family values and if they form friendships with like minded boundary breakers, a mum cannot win...or I couldn't. They've turned out OK...sort of..no one is perfect.
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Post by ianali on Jun 4, 2020 18:14:43 GMT
I blame the parents as well. Will add that I think the whole littering and general antisocial behaviour started some time ago. Not sure itβs any worse now than it was say thirty years ago. Kids today, many are fine, some not so. My offspring would not leave litter, nor would most of their friends. I feel a bit uncomfortable about allocating 'blame' on parents for all kids misdemeanours which seems to be a trend. I tried really hard to install in all mine a sense of right..to never litter(tbh I don't think any of them do throw litter now but in the past they may have) and to behave in a way that didn't cause major problems..well that one didn't work out...police, court, failure to finish school, drugs etc etc..2 of them nicknamed 'The Krays'....All I'm saying is you can do everything and I did and it can still go wrong. Sometimes their 'peers' are far more important than family values and if they form friendships with like minded boundary breakers, a mum cannot win...or I couldn't.Β They've turned out OK...sort of..no one is perfect. Agree Patty. I worded my post poorly. I know some parents are let down by their offspring. I was trying to say that Iβm donβt think itβs just youngsters that litter. Previous generations can be just as bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 18:24:11 GMT
I will do this because I choose to'. Littering is just uncaring laziness. Rog I always assumed it was uncaring laziness but it's possible that it is a deliberate attempt to open a discussion. It would be quite interesting to find out the average age of people who leave litter around. Lots of publicity about unsustainable consumption and potential for future climate emergencies. Maybe youngsters are seeing this as a serious issue which does not want to be brushed under the carpet or put in the bin.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 18:32:07 GMT
Certainly plenty of evidence of litter having been thrown from cars, which suggests that even if done by kids it was whilst under adult supervision.
As I said earlier, it must be a fairly small number of people responsible because if everyone was littering we'd be waist deep.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 18:33:39 GMT
Did you mean "waste deep"?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2020 19:52:12 GMT
On Friday Sam and I went to Brinklow Castle. We climbed the tump and there, right at the top was a discarded McDonalds drink cup. Sam said "Blimey, McDonalds has only been open a day". Then, on a bench/ table combo in the bailey were two empty Red Bull cans and an empty can of Pepsi. We collected the lot and put it in the bin which was right outside the gate and which the earlier visitors must have walked right past on the way in. I just can't understand the mentality of visiting an ancient monument and leaving litter all over it. I'm sure people do it not because they don't realise that it is wrong, but they know it is wrong and there's some misguided attitude of "no-one tells me what to do" going on.
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