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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 19, 2020 10:24:19 GMT
In a CWDF topic entitled - "Narrowboat from South Ferriby lock questions" - these are the questions being asked :
"What's the best time to leave the lock at South Ferriby?
South or North of Read's Island?
Roughly how long to get to Keadby?
Is there a floating pontoon in the Trent at Keadby to moor up to for the night, or is it best to pass through the lock and wait until the next day?
How long to transit from Keadby to Torksey? Can this be done in one leg or is it best to stop at West Stockwith?
Any other advice and pitfalls to avoid would be gratefully accepted." _______________________________________________________________
There is in fact something else, concerning the safety of the boat and it's crew, that the poster should be made aware of, . . and it comes under "other advice and pitfalls". Narrow beam canal pleasure craft are inherently rather unstable, and if grounded sideways on to a fast running rising tide, even for only for a matter of a few seconds, the probability that they will be rolled over by the force of the tide is alarmingly high !
Today's typical narrow beam steel canalboat is very definitely not the ideal sort of vessel for the Humber, or the lower reaches of the two rivers that merge to form it, . . the Ouse and the Trent, especially in the hands of anyone unfamiliar with these waters. Thanks to their design and construction - flat bottomed, square chined, as deep (height from bottom plating to cabin top) as they are wide, and generally with both cabins and hulls all made from steel - giving them a high Centre of Gravity, their transverse stability is seriously inadequate for situations which could well develop if they find themselves being pushed hard upriver by a powerful Flood tide in the vicinity of mud and sand banks.
Anyone inclined to doubt or question this should look up the report of the Board of Trade inquiry into the loss of the "Lapwing-C" on Whitton Sand, in the river Humber, in 1961. "Lapwing" was loaded with Gas Oil for Nottingham and had left the oil jetties at Hull early on a big Spring tide. When "Lapwing" passed the Tide Board on Chalderness Light it was read as showing that the tide had made enough for the tanker barge to take the short-cut across Whitton Ness, instead of going all the way round through the deepwater channel that in those days passed very close to the Northern shore at Brough.
Despite the depth that was believed to be showing on the Chalderness Tide Board, "Lapwing" grounded somewhere between Sister and Whitton Ness Marks/Lights, swung round athwart the tide and capsized. If a big tide in the Humber can do that to a loaded 16' beam x 7' depth (deck to bottom plating) tanker, . . it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out what big tides are capable of doing to a narrow beam canalboat of around 7' beam x 7' depth, and a mere fraction of the loaded tanker's displacement.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 19, 2020 11:05:00 GMT
Hmmmm looking at the question list he hadn't had a look at Reads Island lately ..... You'd be pushed to get a dinghy up the South side I knew that the Humber was notorious for shifting banks (in theory) before I came up here but the speed and distance that the shipping channel has shifted in just the couple of years that I have been here has amazed me. The first year I was up here I blagged a trip on the Amy Howson from Hull marina up to South Ferriby so That I could see the route inside Reads Island to the entrance (Reads Island extended well downstream from South Ferriby lock involving a zig zag to get in) My plan to visit the Ancholme went on hold because of the lock being out of action (a fairly regular thing .... in fact my answer to "when is the best time to leave South Ferriby" would be "when it works") Last time I went that way, Reads Island had shrunk dramatically, the main shipping channel now runs very close to the shrinking remains and the downstream end has shortened dramatically so that now access to the lock is direct from the main channel and the Southern track up inside of the island has almost totally silted up
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 11:16:03 GMT
Speaking as a canal boater who largely avoids rivers ... I tend to find that many canal boaters just travel on them working on the principle that 'it'll be fine' which it very often , indeed usually is. My first visit to the Thames (having never used an anchor) I was asking every boater leaving the Thames for advice. I ended up chatting to the staff at College Cruisers in Jericho because the only response I was getting was 'don't worry about it' and 'I've never needed to use it in x number of years'. I have always considered that the design of canal boats is fundamentally unsuited to rivers, although with care and knowledge, and good timing on when it's safe, very few will get into difficulties ... however I suspect this is more about luck than any of the former Rog
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Post by duncan on Jun 19, 2020 15:00:19 GMT
Out of interest I have just taken a look at the google satellite image of Reads Island and can hardly believe what it now looks like. When I was regularly cruising from Naburn to Sth Ferriby(40 plus years ago), the shipping channel was south of Reads Island, which was a lot bigger than it is now, and I think the middle of it was opposite the R. Ancholme entrance. In fact there was an inhabited house and farm land on it. The south channel gradually silted up and it was necessary to go downstream almost to the Humber Bridge before rounding the Island to go upstream to the Ancholme. I think I still have the charts from back then somewhere.
I wonder how the narrowboat came to be in South Ferriby.
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Post by brummieboy on Jun 19, 2020 18:20:38 GMT
I've never had any qualms with my boat on controlled rivers, but the Tidal Thames downstream from Brentford, and the Trent from Keadby to Cromwell left me very uncomfortable. The lack of steering going downstream on the Thames together with a falling tide did not give any pleasure. The trip from Keadby to Torksey on a rising tide made for some unusual manoeuvres in parts, especially near Gainsborough. Like Dogless, we now stay mainly on canals, but enjoy the Thames above Teddington, although the northern reaches need concentration.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 20, 2020 6:55:50 GMT
Hmmmm looking at the question list he hadn't had a look at Reads Island lately ..... You'd be pushed to get a dinghy up the South side I knew that the Humber was notorious for shifting banks (in theory) before I came up here but the speed and distance that the shipping channel has shifted in just the couple of years that I have been here has amazed me. The first year I was up here I blagged a trip on the Amy Howson from Hull marina up to South Ferriby so That I could see the route inside Reads Island to the entrance (Reads Island extended well downstream from South Ferriby lock involving a zig zag to get in) My plan to visit the Ancholme went on hold because of the lock being out of action (a fairly regular thing .... in fact my answer to "when is the best time to leave South Ferriby" would be "when it works") Last time I went that way, Reads Island had shrunk dramatically, the main shipping channel now runs very close to the shrinking remains and the downstream end has shortened dramatically so that now access to the lock is direct from the main channel and the Southern track up inside of the island has almost totally silted up and :Jun 19, 2020 16:00:19 GMT 1 duncan said: Out of interest I have just taken a look at the google satellite image of Reads Island and can hardly believe what it now looks like. When I was regularly cruising from Naburn to Sth Ferriby(40 plus years ago), the shipping channel was south of Reads Island, which was a lot bigger than it is now, and I think the middle of it was opposite the R. Ancholme entrance. In fact there was an inhabited house and farm land on it. The south channel gradually silted up and it was necessary to go downstream almost to the Humber Bridge before rounding the Island to go upstream to the Ancholme. I think I still have the charts from back then somewhere. The changes in the Humber's sand and mudbanks, and the deepwater channels themselves, from Dock Wall End up to Walker Dyke seemed to begin increasing in frequency and magnitude very soon after the cofferdam and base for the South towers (Barton side) of the Bridge went in during the early 1970's. For a time the deep channel kept swapping from South to North of Read's Island and then back again, but I can't remember it ever having filled-up to the extent it has done now, . . even when it wasn't in use for months or years at a time. On the current bi-monthly ABP Upper Humber Chart there is an elongated stoneheap marked about half a mile to the NW of the inner end of what's left of Read's Island. That stoneheap is in fact stone that was deposited on dry land forming the inner end of Read's Island sometime in the early(ish) 1980's, and was a failed attempt to halt the extensive erosion that had already begun.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 20, 2020 8:39:31 GMT
I wonder how the narrowboat came to be in South Ferriby.
I just hope that the present owner isn't encouraged to attempt an unassisted return to the canal system from the Ancholme by some of the dubious advice that was inflicted on him yesterday via CWDF. There are no prizes for guessing who contributed the following piece of unhelpful, and for a narrow canalboat, highly inappropriate twaddle : "Indeed VHF is a requirement of travel on ABP Humber waters as is a minimum of two people onboard.
For the current route around the island you will need to check the charts on the ABP Humber website, same goes for the current route around the island at Trent End.
There is no pontoon at Keadby you would have to lock up onto the canal. There is nothing much there you would be better off continuing up to West Stockwith and locking up there or doing the run to Torksey in one hit. There are pontoon in the lock cut there.
There is still a fair bit of commercial shipping on the lower Trent and upper Humber. You will need your VHF to know what they are doing and where they are going."_________________________________________ It is well nigh impossible to over emphasize the risk to which square-chined, flat bottomed canal boats are exposed in the Humber, Trent, and Ouse after either grounding on the Ebb and drying out over the LW period on soft mud, or running up and grounding on the outer end of a sandbank inbound on the Flood, . . and yet, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever in the CWDF advice of these very real and potentially lethal dangers ! The obvious advice to direct at anyone not thoroughly familiar with these waters and lacking the requisite charts, and the ability to read and understand them, is either to get a river Pilot to take you and your boat to your intended destination, or go in company with other vessels which are crewed by people proven to have all the necessary knowledge and experience.
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Post by duncan on Jun 20, 2020 14:54:04 GMT
From the Humber Rescue facebook page today. I am struggling to identify the exact location
Could someone turn this into the photo please
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 16:38:20 GMT
Could someone turn this into the photo please Here you go There are some other photos on the facebook page not sure which one you wanted that one seems to tell the story. I would assume the boat would refloat once the tide comes back up. Of course if it was a spring tide...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 16:46:31 GMT
That looks like the same type of boat that Nauty Cal from the other side has
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 16:51:28 GMT
It is similar but don't think it's the same boat.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 16:54:03 GMT
This one does not seem to have a name displayed correctly. I think the naughtycal boat is a Sealine S23. This one does look like a Sealine but I'm not sure it is. A lot of these Reebok type boats look rather similar.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 20, 2020 18:07:00 GMT
. . . . . . . . . . I am struggling to identify the exact location
I reckon the first photo that Andrew put up could have been taken from somewhere around where Capper's Jetty was, looking S to SSW(ish) across the top end of what used to be called Redcliff Middle Sand. The owners/crew of the ghastly boat, to whom I'm most grateful for their timely assistance in making my earlier point, might possibly have been looking for the old deep channel that runs close along the Northern shore past North Ferriby, . . or on the other hand, they might not have had a clue about where they were, the heading they should have been on, or just how close to the North shore the deepest of the water is along there !
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Post by duncan on Jun 20, 2020 22:50:12 GMT
Could someone turn this into the photo please Here you go There are some other photos on the facebook page not sure which one you wanted that one seems to tell the story. I would assume the boat would refloat once the tide comes back up. Of course if it was a spring tide... Thanks Andrew, yes that probably tells the story best, in one of the other ones they have ploughed quite a trough so were probably shifting when they grounded. Apparently Humber Rescue were unable to refloat her on the next tide, I haven't looked at the tide tables to see how long she may be there.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 21, 2020 6:40:16 GMT
I haven't heard the latest but a tug was on standby to go to it in case it didn't come off on the last tide ..... (their worry was how they were going to get a line to it ..... the tug being about 4 foot draft.) I understand that the leg (S?) were stuck fast and Humber rescue couldn't budge them ..... I will report later after I have haeard owt
(or even have heard)
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