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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 17:55:42 GMT
I don’t think wilful neglect is a crime. Otherwise I could be prosecuted for the state of my hair. I think you would need to determine what specific legal duty CRT have to manage vegetation, then get some kind of court order to force them to meet their obligations. I’m sure it would only cost a couple of hundred k. It was very noticeable on the southern Stratford that nature was rapidly reclaiming the canal. Three months of lack of use and lack of maintenance is all that it takes. Quite nice in places, but obviously not when it restricts navigation. I’m not really on about vegetation specifically. That’s part of the overall deterioration that a policy of no preventative maintenance brings. I’m more concerned with the infrastructure that’s falling to bits in slow motion in front of the eyes of anybody prepared to look.
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Post by metanoia on Jul 18, 2020 18:06:30 GMT
I think I recall Filance Lock being closed for a few weeks last winter.
Several months later I've worked through it twice. Not sure what the stoppage was about as top and bottom gates are all leaking like sieves and there is still no bollard/ring/hope of a lock landing. More than happy (before the purists comment that's the way it was) it wasn't necessary back in the day BUT with the increased traffic around now if an unsuspecting or unaware single hander (or anyone, come to that) is trying to use it there's a disaster waiting to happen - you have to go on to the visitor moorings beyond the next bridge to tie off if you don't have a hook to hand.
And DON'T mention the overhanging trees on the approach to the Sow Aqueduct...!!
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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 18:14:22 GMT
Every boater has stories like these, maybe if we started taking photos then we might start having a case for something even if it isn’t wilful neglect. Especially if you keep going past and there’s no improvement just the increased deterioration.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 18, 2020 18:18:04 GMT
I don’t think wilful neglect is a crime. Otherwise I could be prosecuted for the state of my hair. I think you would need to determine what specific legal duty CRT have to manage vegetation, then get some kind of court order to force them to meet their obligations. I’m sure it would only cost a couple of hundred k. It was very noticeable on the southern Stratford that nature was rapidly reclaiming the canal. Three months of lack of use and lack of maintenance is all that it takes. Quite nice in places, but obviously not when it restricts navigation. I’m not really on about vegetation specifically. That’s part of the overall deterioration that a policy of no preventative maintenance brings. I’m more concerned with the infrastructure that’s falling to bits in slow motion in front of the eyes of anybody prepared to look. Yes I agree, funnily enough it seems to vary a lot with where you go, for example the locks around birmingham / BCN are mostly pretty good. But stuff up north is pretty crap and we have just come up the Staffs and Worcs with most locks leaking really badly. The top lock of the Wilmcote flight has only had 1 paddle working for at least 5 years to my knowledge. There is a “CRT Aware” sign on it, which of course means that they are aware but have no intention of doing anything about it! Apart from the risk of the second paddle failing and closing the flight, it creates a massive bottleneck in high season because it takes so long to fill.
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Post by metanoia on Jul 18, 2020 18:20:03 GMT
I agree kris but I don't do photos. Perhaps those that do can or vice versa?
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Post by metanoia on Jul 18, 2020 18:24:15 GMT
I’m not really on about vegetation specifically. That’s part of the overall deterioration that a policy of no preventative maintenance brings. I’m more concerned with the infrastructure that’s falling to bits in slow motion in front of the eyes of anybody prepared to look. Yes I agree, funnily enough it seems to vary a lot with where you go, for example the locks around birmingham / BCN are mostly pretty good. But stuff up north is pretty crap and we have just come up the Staffs and Worcs with most locks leaking really badly. The top lock of the Wilmcote flight has only had 1 paddle working for at least 5 years to my knowledge. There is a “CRT Aware” sign on it, which of course means that they are aware but have no intention of doing anything about it! Apart from the risk of the second paddle failing and closing the flight, it creates a massive bottleneck in high season because it takes so long to fill. In a similar vein - does anyone have any idea what effect the ridiculous "limiters" are having at Stanthorne Lock now the "ring" has gone berserk? Must be causing chaos...
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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 18:30:30 GMT
I agree kris but I don't do photos. Perhaps those that do can or vice versa? I don’t especially do photos myself but I probably could if something was going to come out of it.
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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 18:33:14 GMT
I’m not really on about vegetation specifically. That’s part of the overall deterioration that a policy of no preventative maintenance brings. I’m more concerned with the infrastructure that’s falling to bits in slow motion in front of the eyes of anybody prepared to look. Yes I agree, funnily enough it seems to vary a lot with where you go, for example the locks around birmingham / BCN are mostly pretty good. But stuff up north is pretty crap and we have just come up the Staffs and Worcs with most locks leaking really badly. The top lock of the Wilmcote flight has only had 1 paddle working for at least 5 years to my knowledge. There is a “CRT Aware” sign on it, which of course means that they are aware but have no intention of doing anything about it! Apart from the risk of the second paddle failing and closing the flight, it creates a massive bottleneck in high season because it takes so long to fill. it’s exactly things like this, everybody knows of things like this. If you start to coordinate this information nationally you start to get proof of something?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 19:35:55 GMT
I'm sure the limiters are there solely to support C&RT's ridiculous assertion that the breach was caused by both paddles being raised and 'swamping' the pound below ... as has happened regularly in the two hundred years or so the canal's been operating ... oh hang on ... this despite their own engineers reporting preventative maintenance was required to the culvert and embankment at least eighteen months before (at an estimated cost of thousands ... talk about a stitch in time).
Rog
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 18, 2020 20:36:33 GMT
I'm sure the limiters are there solely to support C&RT's ridiculous assertion that the breach was caused by both paddles being raised and 'swamping' the pound below ... as has happened regularly in the two hundred years or so the canal's been operating ... oh hang on ... this despite their own engineers reporting preventative maintenance was required to the culvert and embankment at least eighteen months before (at an estimated cost of thousands ... talk about a stitch in time). Rog I'm sure you're absolutely right, . . but don't you agree that a readiness to publish guff like that is a reliable measure of the contempt that C&RT have for their supposed 'customers', and the extent to which those captive 'customers' have earned that contempt by demonstrating that they're prepared to be endlessly fobbed off, pissed around, and denied the facilities and services they pay for. As I've said before, . . the pleasure boating fraternity really have now got just the sort of joke navigation authority they deserve, . . and there's no-one to blame but themselves !
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 18, 2020 20:54:29 GMT
If only NBTA were interested in navigating instead of mooring, it’s the sort of thing they could co-ordinate. A massive dossier detailing every defect in the entire network. Never going to happen though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 20:56:16 GMT
One of the issues created by contracted out vegetation cutting in my view, is that Fountain's and the like, send their guys out to cut the grass on the towpath to honour the contract ... rain, snow, hail or blow. But they do what they are contracted to do, without consideration or thought ... simply cut the grass. We watched a guy trying to manhandle a large mower under over hanging branches in pouring rain ... the branches virtually blocking the towpath. He managed to get through after great difficulty, but just left the overhanging branches be ... his mates with strimmers could have eased the situation, but the contract is to cut the grass and that's what he did. I remember years ago chatting with the lockie on the Montgomery, just before he was retired and moved out of the lock cottage ... he said he used to keep the locks looking good, painting, planting and basic maintenance ... but contractors had taken over and they just cut the grass ... didn't even tidy it up so the cut grass just lays around in clumps and treads in everywhere. At times now it seems the only jobs left that C&RT do are sending silly e mails and designing signage. Rog I saw a vegetation management crew consisting of 3 men doing the towpath at Limehouse a couple of weeks ago. They had a wide grass cutting mower and two blokes with strimmers. This despite the fact that the towpath is surfaced and the only vegetation is occasional minor weed growth at the margins. Yes, the bloke was actually mowing a gravel surfaced path. I couldn't really believe that someone would run a mower over a solid path like that but they did. The dust was terrible.
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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 21:04:46 GMT
If only NBTA were interested in navigating instead of mooring, it’s the sort of thing they could co-ordinate. A massive dossier detailing every defect in the entire network. Never going to happen though. Ha ha ha ha ha....... I nearly fell off my chair, I see it’s well past gin o’clock.
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Post by NigelMoore on Jul 18, 2020 23:13:45 GMT
Anyway back on subject, I’ve had an idea, well it’s a bit more of a question for Nigel at the moment. How possible would it be to bring a private prosecution against crt for wilful neglect? I don't believe a prosecution is appropriate in circumstances where the Transport Act 1968 (s.106) very specifically provides for members of the public to bring a High Court action against them for failing to meet their maintenance obligations. I do believe that that would be a worthwhile action to take – despite the inevitable failure of the case by reason of the “get out of gaol free” defence of impecuniosity. It would at least have the benefit of flagging up the situation (INCLUDING the pled lack of funds) to a wider audience, and perchance even awaken some interest in an idle MP's breast. (Put to them as part of a cunning plan, you never know - they might even be cooperative in going along with it without claiming costs, as part of a publicising exercise over their financial frailty.)
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Post by kris on Jul 18, 2020 23:25:30 GMT
Thank you for the reply Nigel. Whilst I take comfort in the fact that you think it would be worthwhile. I’m not to happy about giving credence to carts pleas of poverty, when they haemorrhage money on everything but essential maintenance. I was thinking more like donating say £10 a month to finance a case, if 100 boaters would do that it would go along way to financing it. Anyway I’m away to look up impucuniosity
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