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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 11, 2020 10:29:42 GMT
I was talking to a boater the other day about stoves. He's just spent the best part of a grand on an all singing all dancing cast model. My little fabricated Boatman doesn't claim to be 'efficient' but I know from experience that it's virtually bombproof. Fill it up with petcoke, open up the air vent the thing virtually glows red and has that lovely smell of steel about to melt but despite this, no cracks.
He tried to explain to me that if I bought an 'efficient' stove like his I could save probably 30% on my fuel usage. I'm not having it. Call me thick but to me you burn something that has a certain calorific value. That doesn't change, regardless of which stove you use. The heat produced gets split between first warming the stove then radiating out into the room, and going up the chimney. I could understand that if you limit the amount of heat going up the chimney and into the room instead that would make the installation more efficient. OK, so if you had a long flue that curved like a snake more of the heat would be radiated into the room rather than going outside. Otherwise though, what has a steel box which you put fuel into get to do with efficiency?
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Post by peterboat on Sept 11, 2020 10:43:09 GMT
He is right but not that right late boatman stoves are right up there on efficiency baffle plate and top opener sorted it! Boatman stoves are brilliant by the way we have one
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Post by bodger on Sept 11, 2020 10:49:52 GMT
Ricco's analysis is 100% right ................... subject to certain conditions:- As long as you thoroughly burn the fuel with nothing left but inert ash, and no carbon monoxide is produced that goes up the chimney (CO is the result of incomplete combustion), then the "efficiency" of the device depends entirely on the %age of heat that passes into the room and not up the chimney.
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Post by patty on Sept 11, 2020 10:50:51 GMT
I was talking to a boater the other day about stoves. He's just spent the best part of a grand on an all singing all dancing cast model. My little fabricated Boatman doesn't claim to be 'efficient' but I know from experience that it's virtually bombproof. Fill it up with petcoke, open up the air vent the thing virtually glows red and has that lovely smell of steel about to melt but despite this, no cracks. He tried to explain to me that if I bought an 'efficient' stove like his I could save probably 30% on my fuel usage. I'm not having it. Call me thick but to me you burn something that has a certain calorific value. That doesn't change, regardless of which stove you use. The heat produced gets split between first warming the stove then radiating out into the room, and going up the chimney. I could understand that if you limit the amount of heat going up the chimney and into the room instead that would make the installation more efficient. OK, so if you had a long flue that curved like a snake more of the heat would be radiated into the room rather than going outside. Otherwise though, what has a steel box which you put fuel into get to do with efficiency? Some people have to have all singing all dancing..its them.. Some folk don't
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 10:51:41 GMT
Essentially the more secondary burn you get the more efficient.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 11, 2020 11:00:13 GMT
Essentially the more secondary burn you get the more efficient.
The thing is, most boaters regulate the air intake in order to achieve a slower burn. A slower burn appears to be 'inefficient'. But that's what boaters want and need. If the burning was 'efficient' the stove would go out overnight and you'd freeze half to death by the morning. So we all need inefficient stoves. Or have I missed something?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 11:06:59 GMT
Essentially the more secondary burn you get the more efficient.
The thing is, most boaters regulate the air intake in order to achieve a slower burn. A slower burn appears to be 'inefficient'. But that's what boaters want and need. If the burning was 'efficient' the stove would go out overnight and you'd freeze half to death by the morning. So we all need inefficient stoves. Or have I missed something? There is a sort of half way house. Yes if you can't keep the stove in overnight it becomes impracticable in a sole source of heat/poor insulation example. Doesn't mean that the stove is more or less efficient in providing heat though using the measurement of heat output v stuff burned.
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Post by Jim on Sept 11, 2020 11:41:12 GMT
At home we have a hunter hawk 4, with 3 stage burn. Definitely makes the wood last longer. The Dowling Demon on the boat does have top feed and seems to work. Both have a throttle plate in the chimney, which is only used when burning wood, to slow it down a bit, it still gets plenty of air through the top feed.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 11, 2020 11:46:09 GMT
My Boatman only has a bottom air vent. Highly inefficient I'd guess.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 16:28:09 GMT
If your stove suits you, why worry about what anyone else has, needs or wants.
In my view the single most important consideration is whether it will stay in 24/7.
Rog
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Post by peterboat on Sept 11, 2020 18:30:48 GMT
My Rayburn Royal on good anthracite can do 36 hours plus on one fill awesome beast
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 11, 2020 18:36:50 GMT
If your stove suits you, why worry about what anyone else has, needs or wants. In my view the single most important consideration is whether it will stay in 24/7. Rog I just thought it was an interesting thing to discuss, if you set fire to a lump of coal in a metal box and it burns away to nothing, whether it produces more heat in one metal box than another metal box. Personally I don't believe it does. OK, if it doesn't burn away to nothing in one metal box that box will produce less heat than one that does but the flip side to this is that next time the 'inefficient' metal box is used, it will benefit from 'free' coal, the 'efficient' metal box won't have this. So, it seems that it's swings and roundabouts. Meanwhile boaters are being conned into buying overpriced metal boxes by the blurb that implies, at the very least, that they use less fuel to heat any given area. I think Telemachus should comment, he'll know.
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Post by Jim on Sept 11, 2020 19:03:46 GMT
If your stove suits you, why worry about what anyone else has, needs or wants. In my view the single most important consideration is whether it will stay in 24/7. Rog I just thought it was an interesting thing to discuss, if you set fire to a lump of coal in a metal box and it burns away to nothing, whether it produces more heat in one metal box than another metal box. Personally I don't believe it does. OK, if it doesn't burn away to nothing in one metal box that box will produce less heat than one that does but the flip side to this is that next time the 'inefficient' metal box is used, it will benefit from 'free' coal, the 'efficient' metal box won't have this. So, it seems that it's swings and roundabouts. Meanwhile boaters are being conned into buying overpriced metal boxes by the blurb that implies, at the very least, that they use less fuel to heat any given area. I think Telemachus should comment, he'll know. A more efficient stove gets more heat out of the fuel, simply by burning up more of the gases produced, by introducing oxygen into the top. An air wash function draws air into a chamber above the fire and squirt it down the glass, the hot air then feeding the flames. With the stove at home, when it's set right there's a ball of flame rolling over the wood. With a less efficient stove the gaseous fuel goes up the chimney. These being hot tar particles they cause pollution or condense in your chimney.
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Post by peterboat on Sept 11, 2020 19:36:46 GMT
If your stove suits you, why worry about what anyone else has, needs or wants. In my view the single most important consideration is whether it will stay in 24/7. Rog I just thought it was an interesting thing to discuss, if you set fire to a lump of coal in a metal box and it burns away to nothing, whether it produces more heat in one metal box than another metal box. Personally I don't believe it does. OK, if it doesn't burn away to nothing in one metal box that box will produce less heat than one that does but the flip side to this is that next time the 'inefficient' metal box is used, it will benefit from 'free' coal, the 'efficient' metal box won't have this. So, it seems that it's swings and roundabouts. Meanwhile boaters are being conned into buying overpriced metal boxes by the blurb that implies, at the very least, that they use less fuel to heat any given area. I think Telemachus should comment, he'll know. My flu gases go around the oven and under the hot plates plus they lose heat to the large backboiler, often the flu is cool to the touch yet the stove is to hot to touch
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 19:37:53 GMT
I remember that with the Rayburn MF I installed on my narrow boat. They are seriously well designed stoves.
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