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Post by Delta9 on Apr 10, 2016 16:07:29 GMT
My engine is a bit of a bugger on start up at the moment. It fires pretty much straight away but sounds like it is just running on 2 cylinders (3 cylinder engine). While it is doing this it kicks out a ton of white smoke. After a minute or two it starts to run smoother with just the occasional 'phut' and puff of smoke. After a few minutes it runs fine.
Last time I started it I tried holding the glow plugs on for 20 sec instead of the normal 10 and it didn't run rough quite as much but there was still a ton of smoke.
The diesel in the tank has been sat for a long time (only half a tank) do I was thinking that it could be because it is old diesel and maybe a bit of water in the diesel, but if this was the case would it stop smoking after a few minutes?
Any ideas?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 10, 2016 16:30:51 GMT
What you are describing is completely normal for a pre common rail diesel engine, here's mine in action.
Blue smoke is bad, black smoke is bad, white smoke is just incomplete combustion. So long as it clears when the engine warms up there's absolutely nothing to worry about.
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Post by Delta9 on Apr 10, 2016 16:55:40 GMT
Mine never used to do it though, it only started more recently. I had the lift pump replaced with and electric fuel pump and it started after that, could that be the cause?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 10, 2016 17:07:46 GMT
Whenever you get a problem it's always good practice to look at the last thing you did, so maybe. But it could equally be that the diesel has deteriorated over time. I doubt it would be water in the diesel tank, since this will sink to the bottom and the stack pipe should terminate two or three inches from the bottom of the tank. It's never a bad idea though to put a manual pump into the tank, draw off a couple of litres from the bottom and discard it once or twice a year.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 19:22:05 GMT
My engine is a bit of a bugger on start up at the moment. It fires pretty much straight away but sounds like it is just running on 2 cylinders (3 cylinder engine). While it is doing this it kicks out a ton of white smoke. After a minute or two it starts to run smoother with just the occasional 'phut' and puff of smoke. After a few minutes it runs fine. Last time I started it I tried holding the glow plugs on for 20 sec instead of the normal 10 and it didn't run rough quite as much but there was still a ton of smoke. The diesel in the tank has been sat for a long time (only half a tank) do I was thinking that it could be because it is old diesel and maybe a bit of water in the diesel, but if this was the case would it stop smoking after a few minutes? Any ideas? Might be a dodgy spark plug....  If it sounds like one cylinder is amiss then it could be an injector. Probably worth getting them all refurbished as it's difficult to know which cylinder is the problem. |
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Post by Delta9 on Apr 10, 2016 19:52:43 GMT
My engine is a bit of a bugger on start up at the moment. It fires pretty much straight away but sounds like it is just running on 2 cylinders (3 cylinder engine). While it is doing this it kicks out a ton of white smoke. After a minute or two it starts to run smoother with just the occasional 'phut' and puff of smoke. After a few minutes it runs fine. Last time I started it I tried holding the glow plugs on for 20 sec instead of the normal 10 and it didn't run rough quite as much but there was still a ton of smoke. The diesel in the tank has been sat for a long time (only half a tank) do I was thinking that it could be because it is old diesel and maybe a bit of water in the diesel, but if this was the case would it stop smoking after a few minutes? Any ideas? Might be a dodgy spark plug.... If it sounds like one cylinder is amiss then it could be an injector. Probably worth getting them all refurbished as it's difficult to know which cylinder is the problem. I had the injectors reconditioned not that long ago. Only ran it about 20hrs since then. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 20:12:03 GMT
Might be a dodgy spark plug.... If it sounds like one cylinder is amiss then it could be an injector. Probably worth getting them all refurbished as it's difficult to know which cylinder is the problem. I had the injectors reconditioned not that long ago. Only ran it about 20hrs since then. Maybe one of the injectors wasn't reconditioned very well. Many years ago (going back to spark plugs), I had a problem with a cylinder misfire on a 4 cylinder car engine. It turned out Halfrauds had sold me a pack with one dodgy plug. It does happen! If it's something more sinister than you would have black smoke and loss of engine oil...and maybe lots of unexpected noise. I also agree with the point "what did you have changed before it went wrong" thing. Good luck. |
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Post by JohnV on Apr 11, 2016 7:50:50 GMT
I am a long way from being an engine expert, so up till now I have avoided sticking my oar in.
If you have had some parts changed on the fuel system, one thing that can cause white smoke is air in the fuel system. If any of the pipe unions have been disturbed and have the tiniest of diesel weeps, when the engine stops air is sucked into the system causing smoke, sometimes just in individual puffs until all the air has run through the system. Once the engine is up and running properly and the air out of the system there is not enough of a leak to cause problems. Check very carefully around all the joints that were disconnected, they should be completely dry. If there is even the slightest oil film this might be your problem. |
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Post by peterboat on Apr 11, 2016 8:28:06 GMT
As John says check for leaks, but I think it may have one of the heater plugs going down you could check the resistance on them they should be the same or close to each other
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 11, 2016 20:05:03 GMT
Iconoclast: Won't your starter burn out? That was a long churning. Also alternator belt squeal.
Delta: For water in fuel tank get a transparent hollow rod. Drop it to bottom of fuel tank, finger over hole and bring up - you'll see the separation line between water & diesel clearly, if there is water down there. If worried about water and sediment at bottom of fuel tank, occasionally use a hand pump and suck, say, 10 litres into two 5-litre empty water containers (like the kind you'll find in Tescos, Buxton/Evian/Scottish Spring Water, etc.). Let it settle and pour what looks good back.
White smoke - could it be gasket has gone and water is getting into combustion chamber?
Glow plug (we only have one) - I give about 30 seconds. When we have access to 240v I like to stick our little fan heater down in the engine 'ole for a few hours to get everything all nice and warm before turning the engine.
I'm actually surprised at our engine - starts after 3 months of idleness as if it had just been turned off.
Delta - what make engine do you have, and age = ?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 11, 2016 20:13:36 GMT
Iconoclast: Won't your starter burn out? That was a long churning. Also alternator belt squeal. If it hadn't started within 30 seconds I would have let it cool down for 20 minutes or so and tried again... and yes, alternator belt squeal, that has now been replaced. Disappointingly Halfords don't stock fan belts but we found an independent motor factors in Rugby who did (and were open on Sunday) |
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Post by Delta9 on Apr 11, 2016 20:13:36 GMT
I am a long way from being an engine expert, so up till now I have avoided sticking my oar in.
If you have had some parts changed on the fuel system, one thing that can cause white smoke is air in the fuel system. If any of the pipe unions have been disturbed and have the tiniest of diesel weeps, when the engine stops air is sucked into the system causing smoke, sometimes just in individual puffs until all the air has run through the system. Once the engine is up and running properly and the air out of the system there is not enough of a leak to cause problems. Check very carefully around all the joints that were disconnected, they should be completely dry. If there is even the slightest oil film this might be your problem. Thanks, I hadn't thought of that possibility. |
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Post by Delta9 on Apr 11, 2016 20:19:36 GMT
Delta: For water in fuel tank get a transparent hollow rod. Drop it to bottom of fuel tank, finger over hole and bring up - you'll see the separation line between water & diesel clearly, if there is water down there. If worried about water and sediment at bottom of fuel tank, occasionally use a hand pump and suck, say, 10 litres into two 5-litre empty water containers (like the kind you'll find in Tescos, Buxton/Evian/Scottish Spring Water, etc.). Let it settle and pour what looks good back. White smoke - could it be gasket has gone and water is getting into combustion chamber? Glow plug (we only have one) - I give about 30 seconds. When we have access to 240v I like to stick our little fan heater down in the engine 'ole for a few hours to get everything all nice and warm before turning the engine. I'm actually surprised at our engine - starts after 3 months of idleness as if it had just been turned off. Delta - what make engine do you have, and age = ? Cheers I'll Give it a try. I don't think water is getting in the chamber as it never needs topping up. It's an Isuzu 3 cylinder job with 5,000 hrs on it. It is in good nick generally, recently had reconditioned injectors, new fuel pump and compression tested OK. It always starts straight away even after a long while sitting and very cold. It just sounds rough as nuts and smokes like mad for the first few minutes. |
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Post by peterboat on Apr 11, 2016 20:29:05 GMT
I am still with a duff heater plug causing quenched combustion on that cylinder. I dont have heater plugs on my engine but my old boat did and did similar when a heater plug failed. Also check that you have a fuel filter before your electric pump otherwise it wont last long delta ask me how I know
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Post by Delta9 on Apr 11, 2016 20:47:11 GMT
I am still with a duff heater plug causing quenched combustion on that cylinder. I dont have heater plugs on my engine but my old boat did and did similar when a heater plug failed. Also check that you have a fuel filter before your electric pump otherwise it wont last long delta ask me how I know Thanks Peter. My original thought when the problem started was that one heater plug was on its way out but after asking various people for advice and getting a ton of different theories I think I've just confused myself further. |
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