Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:24:38 GMT
I cant keep my pins from wobbling, and I need some advice from the veterans. I have passed loads of lovely quiet rural spots where it would be lovely to stop for a day or two, but I don't trust myself to moor securely on a grass bank, with standard mooring pins. So most times now, I stop when there is some form or armco or rings, so that I can use mooring chains for extra hold. I've tried half a dozen times in the last few days to moor up for a while using pins, and so far they've nearly always worked loose by about the tenth boat that passes. On one occasion I had to abandon a perfectly good mug of coffee when I looked out of the window and noticed the boat was now across the canal and held by a bow rope, and another time I very nearly burned some quite exceptional chorizo style sausages from M+S, whilst dealing with a loose mooring pin- which would have been verging on criminal negligence. So I think the gravity of the issue is clear. I can say that have improved matters by tightening up the ropes, but I still wouldn't trust my technique with mooring pins to hold the boat overnight, say. I've seen people using 'crossed' pins for extra strength. And I've passed a few- even today, coming out of Rugby and along the Oxford, I passed a few moored on single pins that looked as if they'd been there for a good while- so I'm pretty sure its possible. That said, I was not able to knock in my pins the full way in most places I tried, because they hit stone or something underneath when about a foot or so into the ground, whereas the boats I saw moored seem to have picked places where they were able to drive the pins right in, to their full depth. In most places I tried, there seemed to be something stopping me driving them the full way in. So how do people get around the 'shallow earth' problem, when you cant drive them in fully? Just move on till you find somewhere? Or am I giving up too easily? Do I just need a bigger mallet to get them in? Do some people use things like ground anchors to moor when there is no armco, or some other device? I know I'm missing something, but just not sure what the best solution is- and do people think even the best solution will hold their boat all day on a busy Saturday near a traffic hotspot with boats going past all day? Three of these things stayed in the ground all night moored on a grassy bank outside Whitemills marina on the Nene, but that said, they were not challenged much, as it was late when I moored, and traffic was quiet. Also they bend too easily- they are obviously not intended to cope with a 20 tons of metal surging on a bow wave, but they sort of do a job, and they are harder to pull out than standard mooring pins: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08CMHHRSC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B08CMHHRSC&pd_rd_w=eqyPo&pf_rd_p=1055d8b2-c10c-4d7d-b50d-96300553e15d&pd_rd_wg=in3hN&pf_rd_r=0Z3RGD6QTMA1HYYMM1K9&pd_rd_r=bc167d19-bb2f-48f2-a913-11baf66b6520&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFYM1NCRU5IODEzUkUmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA4NzQ2MTcxUlZTRktPTllVSDdLJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMTMwOTNWQzFISVFJR0hUMVkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVlThese look like a stronger version of the above that wont bend, so I'm pondering whether to take a punt on them: www.amazon.co.uk/Spyra-Universal-Screw-Ground-Anchor/dp/B00ZD4OSGA/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=hurricane+500+ground+anchors&qid=1601225562&sr=8-11These also look as if they might be useful, but I've no idea really: www.amazon.co.uk/Delex-Trampoline-Anchor-Ground-Trampolines/dp/B0855DQ8CD/ref=pd_sbs_86_3/260-1469919-0692149?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0855DQ8CD&pd_rd_r=8357c518-c678-41ac-87fb-1f407aa330e3&pd_rd_w=RQU2I&pd_rd_wg=qUyxE&pf_rd_p=b9bf232d-9a8a-4c7d-aa9d-641c0995d3a2&pf_rd_r=F2XPNZXJ01S9KSJA5J5W&psc=1&refRID=F2XPNZXJ01S9KSJA5J5Wwww.amazon.co.uk/AB-Tools-Weather-Resistant-Tie-Out/dp/B07V3FYMHZ/ref=sr_1_47?crid=1AKCXSAOB1ABR&dchild=1&keywords=ground+anchor+dog+lead&qid=1601224992&sprefix=ground+anchor+%2Caps%2C236&sr=8-47www.amazon.co.uk/Piece-Ground-Anchor-Long-Riegelsberger/dp/B00LHTZK12/ref=sr_1_16?crid=3L45RY9NEPGBE&dchild=1&keywords=ground+anchor&qid=1601225095&sprefix=ground+anchor%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-16
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:45:47 GMT
Bigger hammer would be my starting point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:55:17 GMT
The two best types of mooring pins are UK army issue ground anchor pins and US army tent pegs. The US ones are much more heavy duty and I like the way they just call them tent pegs whereas the UK ones are "ground anchors". Bloody excellent US army gear here www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marquee-Pegs-Landrover-Caravan-anchors-US-army-Picket-post-Unused-/111110765283 JohnV had some of these and also noted their quality I believe. They are very loud when hammering them in though !! The English ones seem harder to come by but worth asking at an army surplus store if they have any ground anchors. If you know any pikeys ask them about marquee pegs, and cheap diesel. As for screw-in ground anchors yes you can get them but not really appropriate for UK canal towpaths. They take ages to wind in and if they do come out they take a hell of a lot of earth with them which is quite rude. As @blacksheep said a bigger hammer to knock them in further is worth considering. Another thing I have used for proper pins is wrecking bars with the crows beak cut off. I used to find these often with the magnet. Then you get onto Rond or Rhond anchors which are quite handy. You can make one of these by cutting one of the tines off a fisherman's anchor. I quite like discussing mooring hardware. ETA these are the UK army ground anchors I was on about earlier. In my short life on boats they seem to have become more and more awkward to find. Excellent mooring pins. (Ended eBay item)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:20:41 GMT
Thanks gents, and there are some very interesting ideas there Mr M.
Those US style pins are essentially steel bars with a point, so what makes them perform better than heavy duty mooring pin?
I am hoping for a clever solution that allows you to knock a pin say one foot in, and then it can protrude spikes, or sharp rings, or something like that - but underground, that helps it to hold. I'm wondering if there is a gap in the market for a clever product that the likes of hire boaters can use to avoid waking up with their boat across the canal.
That said, a number of them spend a fair bit of their holiday with their boat across the canal, so maybe its not a big deal. I went down the Hillmorton flight this morning alongside a crew of I think 6, who made me look like a seasoned pro. Still, they were absolutely lovely folks, and much more friendly than some of the hard-bitten veterans I've passed.
Anyway, clearly most people have no problem whatsoever mooring overnight with decent pins, so its probably a question of using the right technique (which may involve two pins 'crossed' near to each other), and getting them all the way in by brute force.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:26:19 GMT
Oh yes the old self expanding mooring anchor. The Germans sued me for patent infringement when I looked at marketing this product. I thought their patent had run out but I forgot about them being Germans. The US army pegs are indeed steel bars with points on them. The difference is that they are unusually long (42 inch if I remember right) quite thick ie over an inch, have machined spikes rather than forged and also the "handle part is welded with more attention to detail than the average narrow boat. If you can find 3ft6 long heavy mooring pins then I'd like to know where br] But they are noisy when striking with the sledge hammer which is a nuisance. A common failure of most mooring pins is the collapse of the loop part from hammering. Of course this part is not meant for tying the boat up. Common misconception. It is meant to aid removal. You tie the line below this loop part.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:29:06 GMT
They will still be useless unless you get them more than a foot into the ground.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:30:37 GMT
They will still be useless unless you get them more than a foot into the ground. Surely this is pre-school rocket science. ETA I never read overly long posts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:38:31 GMT
So I'm the only boater in england who cant drive those bloody pins in the full way?
Oh dear. This is all rather embarrassing.
I shall try this process again but with some more vigour and manliness when I move again (next Saturday I think), and this time neither rock nor brick shall prevent me from driving those b****rd pins to their full depth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:47:34 GMT
Don't destroy the canal banks.
Sometimes there is concrete there which we all depend on.
Sometimes there are high voltage (276,500v !!) cables don't ask me how I know this.
If the pin is reluctant to go in then just -listen to the hammer- it will talk. If the pin don't want to go in you can't touch this.
I used to listen to the hammer in my car when I was 17.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Sept 27, 2020 18:50:37 GMT
Sometimes you have to keep moving the pin when hammering it in to find the spot that it will go all the way in.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 18:53:29 GMT
As the actress said to the bishop.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 19:09:22 GMT
There is no substitute for length and girth, mine are 900mm long and 94mm in girth. I drive them in about 750mm with an 10lb sledge hammer. They don't come out in a hurry
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 19:09:37 GMT
Due to a combination of fatigue and general mental decrepitude, I have only just become aware of the enormous and damaging potential for dreadful puns and sexually charged double-entendres as part of any discussion involving the insertion of one object into another with at least some degree of force.
I can only apologise to the sensitive natured persons, and advise against reading anything else in this thread.
Also I will say in all honesty that it was never my intention to unleash the punsters, but I fear that- once unleashed- to try to stop them now might be as futile as the young man who according to legend, placed his finger in a dutch dyke.
Oh dear. The hole appears to only get deeper.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 19:12:06 GMT
This is looking rather fishy.
|
|
|
Post by Trina on Sept 27, 2020 19:31:39 GMT
There is no substitute for length and girth, mine are 900mm long and 94mm in girth. I drive them in about 750mm with an 10lb sledge hammer. They don't come out in a hurry Length & girth...ooh er matron.😁
|
|