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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 12:48:11 GMT
I note CRT has been “fiddling” with its website again. Before you buy a long term boat licence you will need: “To read the boat licence terms and conditions – it’s the legal bit! Insurance A Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) certificate” Of course, it should read as: (1) the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel complies with the standards applicable to that vessel; (2) an insurance policy is in force in respect of the vessel and a copy of the policy, or evidence that it exists and is in force, has been produced to the Board; and (3) either— (i)the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere; or (ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances. No mention of a license?? Or licence even! The term “relevant consent” means, for the canals, a licence, and for rivers, a registration / PBC. But you knew that. Its just an assertion, to which you and a good few are partisan to, which has been examined in court and rejected. In any case, the point currently at issue is whether or not CRT, following that decision, then acted in accordance with the law.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 3, 2020 13:37:39 GMT
Or licence even! The term “relevant consent” means, for the canals, a licence, and for rivers, a registration / PBC. But you knew that. Consent meaning noun permission for something to happen or agreement to do something no mention of license-licence in that either. If only you had looked a few lines earlier in section 17 para (1) of the 1995 act, you would see that “relevant consent” is defined thus: “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 13:52:31 GMT
Consent meaning noun permission for something to happen or agreement to do something no mention of license-licence in that either. If only you had looked a few lines earlier in section 17 para (1) of the 1995 act, you would see that “relevant consent” is defined thus: “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate. Yes, True.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 3, 2020 13:52:45 GMT
Section 17(1) of the 1995 British Waterways Act introduced the term "relevant consent" into waterway legislation, . . prior to that it didn't exist. Here's the 'relevant' part of the Act :
17) Conditions as to certificates and licences
(1)In this section—
“houseboat certificate” means a houseboat certificate issued under the Act of 1971;
“insurance policy” means an insurance policy complying with Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act;
“licence” means a licence issued by the Board in respect of any vessel allowing the use of the vessel on any inland waterways;
“pleasure boat certificate” means a pleasure boat certificate issued under the Act of 1971;
“relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate; and
“standards” means standards for the construction and equipment of vessels prescribed under this section and Part II of the said Schedule 2. _____________________________________________
Search in vain for the illusive 'Rivers only Licence', . . it's nowhere to be found in the 1995 Act, nor in any other enactment relating to any inland waterway. On the other hand, the Pleasure Boat Certificate [PBC] - which C&RT now flatly refuse to issue under any circumstances - remains, in statute, as the the sole legitimate form of registration, as opposed to licensing, for pleasure craft on C&RT controlled river waterways.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 14:18:43 GMT
The wheels on the bus go round and round...
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 3, 2020 15:20:18 GMT
The wheels on the bus go round and round... Did someone mention buses? Charles likes this.
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Post by Allan on Nov 3, 2020 20:23:30 GMT
I note CRT has been “fiddling” with its website again. Before you buy a long term boat licence you will need: “To read the boat licence terms and conditions – it’s the legal bit! Insurance A Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) certificate” Of course, it should read as: (1) the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel complies with the standards applicable to that vessel; (2) an insurance policy is in force in respect of the vessel and a copy of the policy, or evidence that it exists and is in force, has been produced to the Board; and (3) either— (i)the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere; or (ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances. No mention of a license?? Or licence even! The term “relevant consent” means, for the canals, a licence, and for rivers, a registration / PBC. But you knew that. Almost but not quite. It's meaning is defined in the British Waterways Act 1995 S 17(1) - “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 3, 2020 21:22:11 GMT
Or licence even! The term “relevant consent” means, for the canals, a licence, and for rivers, a registration / PBC. But you knew that. Almost but not quite. It's meaning is defined in the British Waterways Act 1995 S 17(1) - “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate See my post of 7 hours ago!
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Post by Jim on Nov 4, 2020 10:28:03 GMT
Almost but not quite. It's meaning is defined in the British Waterways Act 1995 S 17(1) - “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate See my post of 7 hours ago! As on the minute as NBW. 😂
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Post by Allan on Nov 4, 2020 16:18:23 GMT
Almost but not quite. It's meaning is defined in the British Waterways Act 1995 S 17(1) - “relevant consent” means a houseboat certificate, a licence or a pleasure boat certificate See my post of 7 hours ago! You got me
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 17:08:25 GMT
I wonder if TonyDunkley would take issue with the term "relevant consent" bearing in mind that the word "consent" usually implies being given permission to do something. Which of course is not required for PRN waterways... Despite what some may like to believe. So far...of course if people blindly accept "licensing" on PRN waterways then maybe it (the PRN) will end up being lost. I actually think this is quite a big subject overall. Given the general move towards relieving people of their liberties in general, over time, discussion on whether there is an attempt to override the PRN does seem to be quite interesting.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 4, 2020 17:58:08 GMT
How many boaters have bought a 'Rivers Only' licence and paid VAT on it? And none have complained before? (apart from Lea Ravenscroft)? Is this an issue for the Trent only? What about all the other rivers? Stort, Lea, Kennet, (Bristol) Avon, (Stratford) Avon, Severn, Aire, etc. Interesting: CRT refers to pleasure boat registration here: "There is no technical difference between a 'Boat licence' and the 'Registration Certificate'. The canal licence (which includes use of rivers) is distinctly a licence – this is because we own the canals and the device for granting permission to use is via a licence. Rivers are different. There is a statutory right of navigation and we don’t own them, so all that people have to do is to ‘register’ to use them (subject to a fee which the statutes allow for subject to the percentage condition we covered in the last query). So technically, it is not a ‘river only licence’ but a ‘river registration’. Since in practice the terms and conditions are the same, we have not for many years made a distinction in order avoid confusion."
...and "This is the response from a Sarina Young to my request less than a year ago, in which she denies that CART issue River Registration Certificates
You can find it on this link www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...
"..that is not already recorded. We do not hold this information and do not have to create it in order to respond to your request. Additionally, Canal & River Trust do not issue 'River Registration Certificates' - I believe that this may be a requirement imposed by the Environment Agency and therefore not applicable to these navigations managed by the Trust.
Q- Would there be a way to find a list of documents held by Canals and Rivers Trust concerning licences and River registration certificates for Rowing Clubs on the Trent and Severn?
A "There is no such list of documents held by Canal & River Trust concerning licences and River registration certificates for Rowing Clubs on the Trent and Severn. As above we do not issue 'River Registration Certificates'."
So how this denial now squares with the response you have and which is correct I do not know. I found CART to be unhelpful to say the least."
Sarina Young
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/river_licence_a_percentage_of_fu
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 18:05:34 GMT
I've been paying for a "Rivers only" on one of my boats for the past 6 years because the mooring it is on is on part of the River Lee Navigation. I never noticed the VAT anomaly.
I think it's about £600 a year so £120 X 6 oh yes that would be handy beer money !!
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 4, 2020 18:10:42 GMT
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 4, 2020 18:11:46 GMT
I've been paying for a "Rivers only" on one of my boats for the past 6 years because the mooring it is on is on part of the River Lee Navigation. I never noticed the VAT anomaly. I think it's about £600 a year so £120 X 6 oh yes that would be handy beer money !! Ask for it back? Why did you not ask for a Pleasure Boat Registration in the first place?
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