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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 4, 2020 8:25:41 GMT
There's already been some work to flood proof the moorings. Riser poles clamped to the cast iron mooring bollards, so the boats don't end up on the bank, as happened to the scout boat outside the navigation. It's just down from figure of three, the lock washed out in the last flood. The mind boggles at how many Olympic baths full of water a minute are going down there when it's in flood. The way the blurb on the petition page reads is as though that length of bank has been used as pleasure boat moorings for the last 20 years, . . but I'm pretty sure it's far longer than that. Back in the 1960's there was a boat club called Calder & Hebble Navigation Society - or something very similar - and they had a nice old Thames style toff's launch called ''Doreen". It's too long ago to be absolutely certain , but I'm fairly sure the Society used to keep "Doreen" there along with a few other privately owned pleasure craft. It seems to me that since the moorings, and presumably the boats that occupy them, survived last Winter's floods relatively unscathed compared with the mess that was made a mile or two away at Figure of Three, the proprietors of that still to be sorted out mess, C&RT, should be told in no uncertain terms to piss off and attend to the real problems that exist in the area instead of creating imaginary ones that exist only in the minds of C&RT's office chair polishers. Do you know if these moorings are rented as a package deal or charged for by C&RT individually ?
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Post by Jim on Oct 4, 2020 8:48:50 GMT
There's already been some work to flood proof the moorings. Riser poles clamped to the cast iron mooring bollards, so the boats don't end up on the bank, as happened to the scout boat outside the navigation. It's just down from figure of three, the lock washed out in the last flood. The mind boggles at how many Olympic baths full of water a minute are going down there when it's in flood. The way the blurb on the petition page reads is as though that length of bank has been used as pleasure boat moorings for the last 20 years, . . but I'm pretty sure it's far longer than that. Back in the 1960's there was a boat club called Calder & Hebble Navigation Society - or something very similar - and they had a nice old Thames style toff's launch called ''Doreen". It's too long ago to be absolutely certain , but I'm fairly sure the Society used to keep "Doreen" there along with a few other privately owned pleasure craft. It seems to me that since the moorings, and presumably the boats that occupy them, survived last Winter's floods relatively unscathed compared with the mess that was made a mile or two away at Figure of Three, the proprietors of that still to be sorted out mess, C&RT, should be told in no uncertain terms to piss off and attend to the real problems that exist in the area instead of creating imaginary ones that exist only in the minds of C&RT's office chair polishers. Do you know if these moorings are rented as a package deal or charged for by C&RT individually ? Morning Tony, not a clue as to the deal. I know of 2 package deals , Callis Mill, Calder valley cruising club between tod and hebden and South Pennine CC at battyford. We went past those moorings in 2000, our first boat trip, bringing a mates Fairline 17.5ft back from Castleford to Sowerby. They appeared well established then. Doreen is still around, in a yellow and green livery. I've seen her used to tow broken down boats. Lots of SPCC boats have ventured up to the top of the hill this summer, it's either that or Huddersfield, they are trapped by Figure O' 3.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 4, 2020 13:00:30 GMT
I've been trying in vain to sign the petition on this 'Change.org' site on and off for the last hour or so.
It either keeps swapping in rapid succession between different pages on the same subject, or it won't add my name until I've 'chipped in' with some dosh. In between asking for money, it's also inviting you to send messages in various ways including Facebook, . . . but it won't send any messages, via anything, and I can't find the 'Broadcut Boaters' on Facebook either !
So, where was the link in post #1 from, . . and is any of this genuine ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 13:07:00 GMT
Seems to be what it says it is, worked fine apart from the subsequent spam.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 4, 2020 13:14:37 GMT
Seems to be what it says it is, worked fine apart from the subsequent spam. Right, . . so how do I contact the 'Broadcut Boaters' directly ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 13:17:21 GMT
Seems to be what it says it is, worked fine apart from the subsequent spam. Right, . . so how do I contact the 'Broadcut Boaters' directly ? Buggered if I know matey
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Post by quaysider on Oct 5, 2020 7:53:37 GMT
signed and tweeted - I almost took a mooring there a few years ago but have to admit, it was the flooding that stopped me - the scaffold poles do make a massive difference but it's still very scary down there when the Calder is having a tantrum - I suppose it's only a matter of time before a "100 year flood event" washes away that thin bit of land between the river and the end of the cut and they it'll be good night Vienna
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 5, 2020 8:03:25 GMT
The text accompanying the petition states : "Canal & River Trust want to close the moorings at Broadcut, Wakefield and remove all boats, . . . . . The only reason given for closure is the cost of making the site safer in times of flood, . . . ."
In common with most of the structures for which the C&RT are responsible, this reason they have trotted out for doing away with the moorings in Broadcut simply doesn't hold water. Whenever C&RT, or the EA are faced with the prospect of having to do some serious, proper dredging for the sake of maintaining the X-section of a river clear, wide, and deep enough for either navigation or to take away flood water as quickly as is needed and possible, both organizations will invariably dream up some plausible sounding bullshit with everything and anything other than proper dredging being proposed as the way forward. I suspect that what's really behind the decision to turf all the boats out and close the moorings is that flooding induced silting somewhere in the river below Broadcut Low Lock is causing flood water to back up into Broadcut itself and has prompted a crackpot decision, motivated purely by a desire to divert attention from the consequences of their neglect, to remove what is being affected by that neglect - ie. Broadcut Moorings - rather than to set about and rectify the real problem. Do you know how the petitioners - Broadcut Boaters - can be contacted to alert them to this ?
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Post by Jim on Oct 5, 2020 8:40:46 GMT
I'd suggest the river isn't quite Backing up into Broad cut. It's coming in higher up and flowing down, as the wash out at fig o 3 shows, as well as the levels rising from lower down. I doubt dredging will solve much. The river must be rising nigh on 20ft above normal, at least a metre above normal canal levels for boats to end up on the towpath.
It's being fed by floodwaters from a huge catchment, from Marsden beyond Huddersfield, from my mooring and the moors around it over towards Cliviger, from the moors towards Keighley, above Hebden. Fig o 3 might be protected with a better bund between the river and the lock but they are not going to stop the rising waters down there. The solution is to be had back upstream, trees and vegetation on the hills, flood tanks where possible (there's one going in just below my house to help alleviate Littleborough and Rochdale flooding).
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 5, 2020 22:00:43 GMT
I'd suggest the river isn't quite Backing up into Broad cut. It's coming in higher up and flowing down, as the wash out at fig o 3 shows, as well as the levels rising from lower down. I doubt dredging will solve much. The river must be rising nigh on 20ft above normal, at least a metre above normal canal levels for boats to end up on the towpath. It's being fed by floodwaters from a huge catchment, from Marsden beyond Huddersfield, from my mooring and the moors around it over towards Cliviger, from the moors towards Keighley, above Hebden. Fig o 3 might be protected with a better bund between the river and the lock but they are not going to stop the rising waters down there. The solution is to be had back upstream, trees and vegetation on the hills, flood tanks where possible (there's one going in just below my house to help alleviate Littleborough and Rochdale flooding). Like every other river navigation with the usual lock-cuts and the low ends of canal sections re-joining the river, all the sand, silt, or mud that is carried downriver in suspension in the Calder's flood water is deposited by the slower moving water in the back-eddies where those lock-cuts and navigable river sections rejoin the non-navigable river sections. The progressive build-up following every significant flood eventually shallows and restricts the waterway X-section at points along the whole length of the navigable parts of the river and reduces it's effectiveness as a drainage channel to carry away flood waters. In the 25 to 30 years since the EA and BWB jointly consigned regular/routine (navigation channel depth maintenance) and remedial spot dredging (flood deposits) to history and museum exhibits, the flood water carrying capacity and the speed at which any given quantity of excess water can be carried away by our river navigations has steadily reduced, with the inevitable result that flood water levels in every one of the river navigations for which BWB and the EA were either jointly or separately responsible, including the Calder, now back-up to a much greater extent and more frequently than they ever used to during floods along the whole of the navigable lengths. Irrespective of the direction from which Broadcut now floods and overflows with such frequent severity, the root cause lies in the main with the cumulative effect of 25 (+) years of intentional neglect. Think how partially blocked guttering round the roof of a building overflows during rainstorms, . . and that tells you an awful lot about the consequences of neglecting maintenance dredging of both navigable and non-navigable water drainage channels !
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Post by Jim on Oct 6, 2020 8:11:46 GMT
I'd suggest the river isn't quite Backing up into Broad cut. It's coming in higher up and flowing down, as the wash out at fig o 3 shows, as well as the levels rising from lower down. I doubt dredging will solve much. The river must be rising nigh on 20ft above normal, at least a metre above normal canal levels for boats to end up on the towpath. It's being fed by floodwaters from a huge catchment, from Marsden beyond Huddersfield, from my mooring and the moors around it over towards Cliviger, from the moors towards Keighley, above Hebden. Fig o 3 might be protected with a better bund between the river and the lock but they are not going to stop the rising waters down there. The solution is to be had back upstream, trees and vegetation on the hills, flood tanks where possible (there's one going in just below my house to help alleviate Littleborough and Rochdale flooding). Like every other river navigation with the usual lock-cuts and the low ends of canal sections re-joining the river, all the sand, silt, or mud that is carried downriver in suspension in the Calder's flood water is deposited by the slower moving water in the back-eddies where those lock-cuts and navigable river sections rejoin the non-navigable river sections. The progressive build-up following every significant flood eventually shallows and restricts the waterway X-section at points along the whole length of the navigable parts of the river and reduces it's effectiveness as a drainage channel to carry away flood waters. In the 25 to 30 years since the EA and BWB jointly consigned regular/routine (navigation channel depth maintenance) and remedial spot dredging (flood deposits) to history and museum exhibits, the flood water carrying capacity and the speed at which any given quantity of excess water can be carried away by our river navigations has steadily reduced, with the inevitable result that flood water levels in every one of the river navigations for which BWB and the EA were either jointly or separately responsible, including the Calder, now back-up to a much greater extent and more frequently than they ever used to during floods along the whole of the navigable lengths. Irrespective of the direction from which Broadcut now floods and overflows with such frequent severity, the root cause lies in the main with the cumulative effect of 25 (+) years of intentional neglect. Think how partially blocked guttering round the roof of a building overflows during rainstorms, . . and that tells you an awful lot about the consequences of neglecting maintenance dredging of both navigable and non-navigable water drainage channels ! I know you have your own drum to bang, and rightly so in many cases. My proposition is that no amount of dredging would save places like Broad Cut from the floods we get now. What were once in a hundred years are now once in ten going by recent history.
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 6, 2020 8:59:41 GMT
Like every other river navigation with the usual lock-cuts and the low ends of canal sections re-joining the river, all the sand, silt, or mud that is carried downriver in suspension in the Calder's flood water is deposited by the slower moving water in the back-eddies where those lock-cuts and navigable river sections rejoin the non-navigable river sections. The progressive build-up following every significant flood eventually shallows and restricts the waterway X-section at points along the whole length of the navigable parts of the river and reduces it's effectiveness as a drainage channel to carry away flood waters. In the 25 to 30 years since the EA and BWB jointly consigned regular/routine (navigation channel depth maintenance) and remedial spot dredging (flood deposits) to history and museum exhibits, the flood water carrying capacity and the speed at which any given quantity of excess water can be carried away by our river navigations has steadily reduced, with the inevitable result that flood water levels in every one of the river navigations for which BWB and the EA were either jointly or separately responsible, including the Calder, now back-up to a much greater extent and more frequently than they ever used to during floods along the whole of the navigable lengths. Irrespective of the direction from which Broadcut now floods and overflows with such frequent severity, the root cause lies in the main with the cumulative effect of 25 (+) years of intentional neglect. Think how partially blocked guttering round the roof of a building overflows during rainstorms, . . and that tells you an awful lot about the consequences of neglecting maintenance dredging of both navigable and non-navigable water drainage channels ! What were once in a hundred years are now once in ten going by recent history. What rubbish!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 10:13:21 GMT
The text accompanying the petition states : "Canal & River Trust want to close the moorings at Broadcut, Wakefield and remove all boats, . . . . . The only reason given for closure is the cost of making the site safer in times of flood, . . . ."
In common with most of the structures for which the C&RT are responsible, this reason they have trotted out for doing away with the moorings in Broadcut simply doesn't hold water. Whenever C&RT, or the EA are faced with the prospect of having to do some serious, proper dredging for the sake of maintaining the X-section of a river clear, wide, and deep enough for either navigation or to take away flood water as quickly as is needed and possible, both organizations will invariably dream up some plausible sounding bullshit with everything and anything other than proper dredging being proposed as the way forward. I suspect that what's really behind the decision to turf all the boats out and close the moorings is that flooding induced silting somewhere in the river below Broadcut Low Lock is causing flood water to back up into Broadcut itself and has prompted a crackpot decision, motivated purely by a desire to divert attention from the consequences of their neglect, to remove what is being affected by that neglect - ie. Broadcut Moorings - rather than to set about and rectify the real problem. Do you know how the petitioners - Broadcut Boaters - can be contacted to alert them to this ? It's less than 70 miles from you!
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Post by kris on Oct 6, 2020 11:47:02 GMT
Maybe if you shout louder Tony, they might hear you.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 6, 2020 13:50:07 GMT
Maybe if you shout louder Tony, they might hear you. So, . . you would rather make silly smart-arse remarks than be of any assistance in passing on some information which could be helpful to these people in opposing C&RT's plans to deprive them of their moorings ! Hardly the sort of response one would expect from someone with genuinely sincere aspirations to become a Boater's Representative on the C&RT Council, . . is it ? On the other hand, of course, it's exactly what one would expect from a spineless two-faced bull-shitter with no-one's interests at heart other than his own !
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