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Post by JohnV on Oct 21, 2020 3:40:31 GMT
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 4:28:15 GMT
Minus 1 Centigrade here, black ice on the roads. My phone says it's +14C in Berkshire... that seems warm for an October morning.
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 21, 2020 6:20:55 GMT
Thought provoking? Bloody obvious! Next! |
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Post by bodger on Oct 21, 2020 7:07:01 GMT
best thing we can all do is to crawl back into our shells, live like hermits, and wait until it's all over - climate change, covid, Trump ..... whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 7:26:50 GMT
Thought provoking? Bloody obvious! Next! I haven't read it but does it say something like 'capitalism exists to serve itself and will continue to do so until there's nothing left'? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 7:27:42 GMT
best thing we can all do is to crawl back into our shells, live like hermits, and wait until it's all over - climate change, covid, Trump ..... whatever.
You forgot 'and fuck the arctic' |
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 21, 2020 7:47:55 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. |
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 9:51:48 GMT
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 9:56:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 10:29:01 GMT
Capitalism can't end until people view wealth as a negative rather than a positive.
Success should be about your impact on the world rather than how much money you are able to make.
I suppose that might change but no point holding one's breath.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Oct 21, 2020 10:49:53 GMT
Capitalism can't end until people view wealth as a negative rather than a positive. Money, it's a hit Don't give me that do goody good bullshit.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 10:55:43 GMT
I hate Pink Floyd.
I also have no interest in generating money.
This is actually a bit of a problem for me as at the current cash burn rate I will run out in a few years and no idea what to do after that. No safety net, no investments, no property, no job prospects.
Oh well we are all different. Some people do chase money and really like it. Some don't.
You only live once. I'll be quite happy if I live to experience being well off and having nothing. Worse things happen at sea. At least thats what they say.
From riches to rags. It is said that you get what you order and life outcomes are a result of what you do or don't do.
The whole system is based on people's fear of that nothingness and starving.
I did find it quite eye opening when a woman phoned in a radio station talking about food banks. The first thing she mentioned was paying for her Sky. Then going to the food bank.
It was not a joke.
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Post by twbm2 on Oct 21, 2020 11:01:02 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. Your suggestion re tax has merit .. and could be achieved by adjusting VAT rates. I wonder where items purchased purely for leisure purposes, like narrowboats, would fit. I anticipate people that live on them full time would demand a lower tax rate because it was an 'essential' purchase, even though they generally avoid the tax that houses attract and it's a lifestyle choice. Eat out to help attracted a lot pf people who are more familiar with eating from a paper bag, and have no idea how to behave when in restaurants. |
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 21, 2020 11:07:05 GMT
Thought provoking? Bloody obvious! Next! I haven't read it but does it say something like 'capitalism exists to serve itself and will continue to do so until there's nothing left'? Nor me (read it all) but there's another obvious statement isn't it? I swing with the MM "we're all fucked" view. However much everyone cut back there will always the elephant in the room - more people. I suggest that's the basis of many peoples "couldn't give a toss" attitude - why bother when your perception is that all we can do is marginally delay the inevitable. Better to party while the world burns, you only live once, feck the future and those to come. That attitude appears to have extended to our current in your face public money (debt) shovelled into unsuitable private hands like there's no tomorrow whether track and trace or PPE procurement or covid loans to dodgy applicants. This money simply disappears up it's pwn arse with little or nothing to show for it. We certainly are all doomed. |
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 21, 2020 11:18:57 GMT
I hate Pink Floyd. I also have no interest in generating money. This is actually a bit of a problem for me as at the current cash burn rate I will run out in a few years and no idea what to do after that. No safety net, no investments, no property, no job prospects. Oh well we are all different. Some people do chase money and really like it. Some don't. You only live once. I'll be quite happy if I live to experience being well off and having nothing. Worse things happen at sea. At least thats what they say. From riches to rags. It is said that you get what you order and life outcomes are a result of what you do or don't do. The whole system is based on people's fear of that nothingness and starving. I did find it quite eye opening when a woman phoned in a radio station talking about food banks. The first thing she mentioned was paying for her Sky. Then going to the food bank. It was not a joke. If that is all true about your future, I suggest inexperience of being actually righteously no hope poor is making you into a fool. You fell for the Sky/foodbank thing hook line and sinker as one would expect the likes of foxy to do. Life with no money isn't a romantic ideal I would encourage, I've been there with no options - I can assure you that for anyone who likes to be, must be, in control of their life that situation is intolerable. But hey, I could sell your collection of boats, buy one small one, cheap mooring on the coast and live on the proceeds for 10-15 years. You don't have much to worry about in the real world. It's easy to lack respect for money when you've never been short of it. |
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