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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 16:09:06 GMT
The closure of W's must be causing you serious problems too quaysider Rog
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 16:47:27 GMT
The closure of W's must be causing you serious problems too quaysider Rog
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 18:29:10 GMT
I'm just beginning my 4th Winter on Ellis... and the 2nd one of which I'm plugged in to shoreline in a Marina. To be candid the hardest thing I find about being a cc during the winter months (cold hands/feet/wet/frozen ropes/slippy locks a side) is the loneliness - less people around to distract me from the vacuum in side my head. I find (found) myself, wrapping up and going out into the daylight as soon as it appeared and tried everything to stop myself being in a dark boat when there was sunlight outside. On a bright sunny day, winter cruising can be lovely - BUT the reality of winter is it's rarely like that... it's an endurance for me. Don't get me wrong, I'd STILL rather chug up and down the cut to charge my batteries and get hot water than sit with the engine idling. Having worked in emergency planning in a former life, I've always got MORE coal than I need on the boat... spare water, a back up power supply in the form of the genny (with petrol), spare gas, plenty of kindling/fire-lighters (even lighter fluid now I'm a lazy fire-lighter) and usually enough dried goods to outlast brexit. Having "tried" it I've decided paying to stay in one place with services on tap/very close by is worth the financial sacrifice. The solar won't do bugger all again now until March so anyone (unless they have the biggest of solar arrays) is going to have to run their engine 2-3 hours daily to keep the batteries in a reasonable state and at least 7 hours + once a week to get the batteries to nearly full... eta - add all those hours of engine running up to go nowhere... and you are gonna spend a lot more on oil changes ... ergo, that may as well be "mooring fees/electric" and keep the engine hours down. I think you make a very strong case in favour of a marina, or at least a mooring with some facilities (during winter), for several reasons. I'm starting to address the challenges of heat and electricity during winter, so very soon I will be able to have warmth, light, and a reasonably civilised lifestyle- even if spend 5 days moored some way from the nearest town or village, and in the depths of Winter- and 'll be able to do that with only an hour or so of engine running per day. So the financial argument isnt as compelling in my case in favour of marinas, But as you say, there is still the challenge posed by Winter tending to reduce the solo boater's human/social interactions. No amount of warmth and comfort are a consolation if you are a person who thrives on lots of company, and you have none for much of the time. But even on that issue I have some mixed feelings. I can get along with most people fairly well, and even be the life and soul if the mood takes me, but I think I'm actually an introvert. Interacting with people, as much as I love it for short periods, has the effect of draining me psychologically- especially if they are argumentative or negative. So limited exposure to people seems to suit me fine. Conversely, for an extrovert, other people's company energises them. That said, even I prefer to interact with people every couple of days. So far, my favourite sort of mooring as Winter approaches is a place with a boat or two in sight but not too close, so you can have the odd chat as you pass, but not worry about annoying them with your engine. The guy moored behind me in Nantwich was a nice sort- intelligent, humorous, but also not demanding or aggressive. He had a few beers on my boat a week after he arrived, and he returned the favour a week later on his boat. Those sort of people I can spend time with no problem, but a fair number of people seem to want to deliver a lecture rather than have a conversation, and those exhaust me pretty quickly. What was also good about that spot near Nantwich was that although it was quiet and pretty rural, it was less than 2 miles to Morrisons and the town centre, so you didn't feel in any way imprisoned by the dark nights and cold etc. It was just 300 yards of smooth concrete towpath (admittedly in the pitch dark), and you were suddenly into the outskirts, with street lights etc. I'm in Swanley Bridge marina now (not Sawley!), and I can see the attraction of marina life. Its pretty affordable to be fair, and at the moment the boats either side of me are uninhabited, so I dont feel any sort of constriction by being so close to them. But I just feel that life out on the cut is where I want to be, at least most of the time. I may come into a marina in the mad heights of summer, but for the moment I prefer being out on the cut. The electric hook up is pretty sweet, it has to be said, as is the unlimited water supply from the hose near the hook up point. But even in Winter (or at least what little I've seen of it so far), I would like to keep moving on, even if only a few miles, every week or two. Being on the move every week or so does mean less social interaction for various reasons. But I think because I'm still new to the while thing, the attraction of seeing new sights still outweighs the challenges posed by moving- it feels like its part of the challenge, and in a way part of the interest of it all. That said, give me six months, and you'll probably find my boat permanently welded to a mooring in a Cheshire marina!
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 24, 2020 18:53:44 GMT
For me, having spent a year moored in a marina (Brinklow) I'd have to say I much prefer what I have now, the farm mooring, for the following reasons.
Firstly, being in Brinklow Marina was a bit like being in a car park for boats. Out of both sides all I could see were the sides of other boats. There was very little activity, I much prefer watching the boats pass by.
Secondly, I have a little plot of land here, enough to park my car on, and build sheds for the moped, my coal supply, my generator and bits and bobs etc.
Thirdly, although it's not a residential mooring there's a pretty laissez-faire attitude towards boaters spending a substantial amount of time on the mooring whereas at Brinklow, while you could spend some significant time there, I don't think my living pattern would be tolerated.
Fourthly, it's far cheaper. I pay £312 to the farmer and £480 for the mooring permit, Brinklow was about £1,600 a year (and that is cheap by marina standards).
Finally, it's a living community "where everybody knows your name" as the "Cheers" theme tune used to say. Very few of the boaters at Brinklow ever seemed to even visit their boats and for the year I was there I'd say 80% of the boats never left the marina whereas here if I'm working outside people stop to chat, even if just to pass the pleasantries of the day, regularly.
There are two minor disadvantages to being here. Firstly at Brinklow I had the choice of turning left or right out of the marina whereas here if I am facing Hawkesbury and want to travel south, it's about 75 minutes to the first place I can wind the boat, at Ansty (it's not as far the other way, at Rose Narrowboats). And secondly although I have a water tap there's no electricity so I have to run the engine and this probably costs me £400 a year in diesel. Although having said that I don't think a permanent hook-up is good for the steelwork even with a galvanic isolator.
An online mooring would definitely be my choice over a marina if I ever moved on elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 18:54:51 GMT
Being welded to a mooring would at least take out the issues with grounding and galvanic corrosion. Not sure if anyone has actually done this but it has some potential
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 18:58:11 GMT
I've never moored in a marina. Well I did one night in one but that was due to the tide and a fitting a new engine. Other than that never.
And never intend to.
The two moorings I use while not out boating (different boats) are an inner London on line canal mooring and a muddy field mooring near Henley.
I don't think I would like a marina although I can see some advantages to it in a way.
Would probably never get to the gate for talking too much...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 19:49:41 GMT
For me, having spent a year moored in a marina (Brinklow) I'd have to say I much prefer what I have now, the farm mooring, for the following reasons. Firstly, being in Brinklow Marina was a bit like being in a car park for boats. Out of both sides all I could see were the sides of other boats. There was very little activity, I much prefer watching the boats pass by. Secondly, I have a little plot of land here, enough to park my car on, and build sheds for the moped, my coal supply, my generator and bits and bobs etc. Thirdly, although it's not a residential mooring there's a pretty laissez-faire attitude towards boaters spending a substantial amount of time on the mooring whereas at Brinklow, while you could spend some significant time there, I don't think my living pattern would be tolerated. Fourthly, it's far cheaper. I pay £312 to the farmer and £480 for the mooring permit, Brinklow was about £1,600 a year (and that is cheap by marina standards). Finally, it's a living community "where everybody knows your name" as the "Cheers" theme tune used to say. Very few of the boaters at Brinklow ever seemed to even visit their boats and for the year I was there I'd say 80% of the boats never left the marina whereas here if I'm working outside people stop to chat, even if just to pass the pleasantries of the day, regularly. There are two minor disadvantages to being here. Firstly at Brinklow I had the choice of turning left or right out of the marina whereas here if I am facing Hawkesbury and want to travel south, it's about 75 minutes to the first place I can wind the boat, at Ansty (it's not as far the other way, at Rose Narrowboats). And secondly although I have a water tap there's no electricity so I have to run the engine and this probably costs me £400 a year in diesel. Although having said that I don't think a permanent hook-up is good for the steelwork even with a galvanic isolator. An online mooring would definitely be my choice over a marina if I ever moved on elsewhere. I must say, if I thought the two boats either side of me were going to stay empty, I'd be happy to do a week in any marina. Its the mooring side by side that puts me off them the most- even though I know it is the sensible way to do it. But I will never, ever knock marina living- it is comfortable and civilised, with lots of company and a mud-free access road towards the nearest town. And if you need to stay in a location for family, friends, work, etc, it can be perfect. Its like a little watery village, and for most people it is a lovely way of life, amongst like minded people. But I have gotten an impression, from the handful of marinas I've stayed at... Now I will say I've only been here two days, and not had much chance to mingle - what with my boat being invaded by the stove install guys- so I don't yet feel any sense of community or even warmth really , from the 10-15 people I've exchanged words with. In terms of how impressed and pleased they seem to be at meeting me, I think so far I'm generally in slightly negative numbers. And this is going to sound daft, but I am beginning to suspect I will prefer the slightly less salubrious and less civilised vibe of the towpath mooring folks, over the more civilised and organised marina dwellers. Life on the towpath has that sense of uncertainty, a tad less security, but also (for me), a sense of unseen sights still to view, and maybe even a bit of a sense of adventure at times. Its hard to put your finger on it, exactly, but I quite like it. Whether I still feel this way in March remains to be seen... And eventually, when I'm no longer fit enough to safely work a lock flight or tie a boat up in high winds, I might think about whether a marina would be ok. In a marina on the Ashby for instance, you would still be able to do ten miles of cruising without locks in good weather, if you were getting very elderly and also a bit unsteady. So there is that. But for the time being at least, its the towpath life for me.
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Post by quaysider on Nov 24, 2020 19:54:51 GMT
Stabby does make a valid point about the storage place for boats and not being able to see out of the boat either side... on this occasion, I'm moored with 2 shorte boats either side so one of my side hatches CAN at least "see out" and the front doors give full view into the canal (I'm reversed in)... It's not perfect but it IS simple and (being on the end of the pontoons, I have to walk past at least 20 other boats to "get home" - and the odds are there is usually someone to natter with - and if not, well the marina office is open 8 while 3... As it stands, I'm having a 5 mile walk down to Sale each morning and then after lunch the other way down the bridgwater (at waters meeting) to White city retail park and back. plenty of opportunities for interaction.
Oddly enough, I TOO am introvert but with a need to talk.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 20:14:07 GMT
Stabby does make a valid point about the storage place for boats and not being able to see out of the boat either side... on this occasion, I'm moored with 2 shorte boats either side so one of my side hatches CAN at least "see out" and the front doors give full view into the canal (I'm reversed in)... It's not perfect but it IS simple and (being on the end of the pontoons, I have to walk past at least 20 other boats to "get home" - and the odds are there is usually someone to natter with - and if not, well the marina office is open 8 while 3... As it stands, I'm having a 5 mile walk down to Sale each morning and then after lunch the other way down the bridgwater (at waters meeting) to White city retail park and back. plenty of opportunities for interaction. Oddly enough, I TOO am introvert but with a need to talk. As a human being, its good to talk, introvert or extrovert- no question about it. It's deep within our DNA to be social animals. And I very much do- people are our social lifeblood, and every encounter on the cut has its own unique aspects. But in my case I prefer people in short bursts- little and often, perhaps- for some crazy reason. And if I'm being completely honest about it, I think its more normal to want to talk/interact in the way you've described (and a marina is perfect for doing exactly that), than to be an oddball loner like myself. It is definitely me that has the dysfunctional viewpoint here , if that's the right word. I grew up in a small house with a very large family, and to be honest I'd pretty much had my fill of living with other human beings by the age of 11 (I'm joking there, but you get my point). There were just too many shouting, fighting, competing, arguing people. Even in a normal family discussion you had to be very quick and pretty loud in order to even be heard. I think it left me with a deep and lifelong appreciation for peace and quiet, and for personal space, and I have to force myself to engage with people sometimes when my initial instinct is to shy away from an interaction. But the great thing is that this is no longer my overcrowded lounge in the 1970s, and most times it turns to actually be interesting and fun to engage. I think all of that means I agree with you! PS- I think the stats about engaging mostly being positive do actually go down slightly, if its a hard-core trad boater you are engaging with. One of these guys approached me at at a water point recently and proceeded to rubbish my boat (and all Collingwood boats), then went on to explain how wonderful his own boat was (as a 1930s working trad design), and then paused, looking at me proudly and awaiting my awed and admiring response to his boat (which to me looked just like the other trads- i.e. a bit daft and impractical). All I could come up with was 'well done', before exiting stage left with a polite farewell. To be fair, he didnt have a cowboy hat. I must say that.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 24, 2020 20:30:00 GMT
Stabby does make a valid point about the storage place for boats and not being able to see out of the boat either side... on this occasion, I'm moored with 2 shorte boats either side so one of my side hatches CAN at least "see out" and the front doors give full view into the canal (I'm reversed in)... It's not perfect but it IS simple and (being on the end of the pontoons, I have to walk past at least 20 other boats to "get home" - and the odds are there is usually someone to natter with - and if not, well the marina office is open 8 while 3... As it stands, I'm having a 5 mile walk down to Sale each morning and then after lunch the other way down the bridgwater (at waters meeting) to White city retail park and back. plenty of opportunities for interaction. Oddly enough, I TOO am introvert but with a need to talk. proceeded to rubbish my boat (and all Collingwood boats), then went on to explain how wonderful his own boat was (as a 1930s working trad design), and then paused, looking at me proudly and awaiting my awed and admiring response to his boat (which to me looked just like the other trads- i.e. a bit daft and impractical). Dead rat down the chimney at night. It's the only language they understand.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 24, 2020 20:54:48 GMT
Interesting posts, I'm with Stabby on Farm moorings opposed to Marina.
The Old Shipyard where I am is more like a Farm mooring than anything else, there are no "neighbours" close by ... a couple up the far end but I hardly ever see them. I have a container for storage, the area by the boat to use as I wish and electric if I need. The only thing missing is a water supply. My tanks hold about a ton and a half and I have a trailer with a 250 litre tank fitted. a top up with that every week or ten days keeps it topped up (and there is water available in an emergency from either firms over the road or a tap about 100 yards away)
With several small firms around and a certain amount of work going on at the end of the shipyard there is often someone to have a few words with in passing. There is a boat in front of me and a boat behind me, one being worked on ..... well in theory at least and the other finished and up for sale for circa 200K.
A sea wall and just over it parking for the car the other bank of the river looks over fields .... suits me
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Post by JohnV on Nov 24, 2020 21:01:23 GMT
Stabby does make a valid point about the storage place for boats and not being able to see out of the boat either side... on this occasion, I'm moored with 2 shorte boats either side so one of my side hatches CAN at least "see out" and the front doors give full view into the canal (I'm reversed in)... It's not perfect but it IS simple and (being on the end of the pontoons, I have to walk past at least 20 other boats to "get home" - and the odds are there is usually someone to natter with - and if not, well the marina office is open 8 while 3... As it stands, I'm having a 5 mile walk down to Sale each morning and then after lunch the other way down the bridgwater (at waters meeting) to White city retail park and back. plenty of opportunities for interaction. Oddly enough, I TOO am introvert but with a need to talk. PS- I think the stats about engaging mostly being positive do actually go down slightly, if its a hard-core trad boater you are engaging with. One of these guys approached me at at a water point recently and proceeded to rubbish my boat (and all Collingwood boats), then went on to explain how wonderful his own boat was (as a 1930s working trad design), and then paused, looking at me proudly and awaiting my awed and admiring response to his boat (which to me looked just like the other trads- i.e. a bit daft and impractical).All I could come up with was Ha ...... you should have been with me trundling round the ditches meeting that type ..... while I was in Shapfell, my little yoghurt pot
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 21:06:11 GMT
I can't understand the mentality of someone who would actually describe someone else's boat in negative terms to the person who owns it.
That seems very bizarre.
Obviously having only ever owned incredibly cool and classy boats I have never experienced this problem but I would never wish to be seen to describe someone else's boat as crap.
Well I suppose if it was an Ormelite I might have some rude words to say about it but I would still try to hold my tongue (not easy!).
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Post by JohnV on Nov 24, 2020 21:14:40 GMT
Well I suppose if it was an Ormelite I might have some rude words to say about it but I would still try to hold my tongue (not easy!). I have a long memory
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 24, 2020 21:32:05 GMT
I can't understand the mentality of someone who would actually describe someone else's boat in negative terms to the person who owns it. That seems very bizarre. Obviously having only ever owned incredibly cool and classy boats I have never experienced this problem but I would never wish to be seen to describe someone else's boat as crap. Well I suppose if it was an Ormelite I might have some rude words to say about it but I would still try to hold my tongue (not easy!). I suspect the mentality is founded on envy. In this case, of a nice, normal, comfortable boat when all he has is some rusty damp old piece of early 20th century shit. Of course it is a mentality I am very familiar with, so many people are envious of our decorative faux rivets and imaginative classical boat name that they simply can’t help themselves. Quite sad, really.
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