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Post by TonyDunkley on Dec 24, 2020 4:06:59 GMT
It possibly is being used as a temporary measure, but whether permanent or temporary, slinging a load of rocks down a hole in the canal bank between two lines of sheet piling followed by some clay on top of the stone isn't the the right way to go about the job. In any case, plugging the hole that can be seen in all the published photo's probably won't achieve anything. I think the water that's running out into the dyke/land drain from the visible hole is coming from several yards further along where the canal bed has blown out between the upper part of the culvert and the bottom ends of some shortened Larssen piles that will have been driven directly over the top of the culvert. Based on what (apart from a hatred of anything CRT do or say)? Also its 'photos' not 'photo's'. See my previous post, . . the answer applies equally well !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 8:48:52 GMT
Thanks for including the term Larssen piles in your comments Tony. Interesting little Wikipedia page about them. Obviously we have all seen these large thick heavy duty piles but not everyone will have been aware of what they arrrr called. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larssen_sheet_pilingThe article includes the words "indents and outdents". First time I have have seen the word "outdents".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 8:50:47 GMT
Based on what (apart from a hatred of anything CRT do or say)? Also its 'photos' not 'photo's'. See my previous post, . . the answer applies equally well ! He’s blinkered and thick as horse shit. He only sees what will suit his mentality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 8:53:22 GMT
It must be a bit of an awkward procedure to place piles above a culvert without leaving a gap but also without damaging the culvert.
The self-cutting nature of the pile itself makes it quite a dangerous device if it contacts anything it's not meant to.
Was the Middlewich branch breach also over a culvert?
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Post by Allan on Dec 24, 2020 14:16:17 GMT
It must be a bit of an awkward procedure to place piles above a culvert without leaving a gap but also without damaging the culvert. The self-cutting nature of the pile itself makes it quite a dangerous device if it contacts anything it's not meant to. Was the Middlewich branch breach also over a culvert? The Middlewich breach was caused by failure of CRT to carry out the recommendation of an inspection which found that the embankment had sunk to the minimum acceptable level. Leaving paddles open at the lock above allowed the canal to overtop at the place where CRT should have done about £50,000 of work to raise the embankment. The problem was further compounded by a run off into a culvert that may have been blocked.
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Post by duncan on Dec 24, 2020 14:40:24 GMT
Would someone, maybe Tony, please give a background to how this is set up and what causes the failure here, and maybe at Middlewich. It has been said that there is a culvert in the area of the failure. My understanding is that a culvert is a pipe, so is that built into the side of the canal? And what is it's purpose? Is it to allow excess water to run out of the canal? Or in other places does rain water flow into the canal?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 15:03:39 GMT
As far as I know culverts are generally tunnels under another structure to accommodate an existing waterway which is at a different level to the canal.
It's probably more technical than this.
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Post by cygnus on Dec 25, 2020 11:06:58 GMT
I thought it would be a good idea to give interested parties a run-down of events since the breach occurred, and the current situation regarding boaters in Goole something like 5 miles away. We are moored in Goole Boathouse Marina. The area affected by the breach is from Pollington Lock up to Goole Docks on the Aire & Calder Navigation, and the New Junction Canal up to Sykehouse Lock, so maybe 10 miles of substantial waterway. As a very rough guess I would say there will be about 300-350 boats/barges, moored on this patch. There is our marina, Viking Marina, and the Dog & Duck barge moorings in Goole. Further down is Rawcliffe Bridge Moorings, and at Pollington there are long term moorings also. Of course there is also the small matter of Goole Docks which might have half a dozen ships unloading or loading a day, and various other movements of craft through the tidal locks. We are the last boat moored on the starboard side of the canal before the docks.
People assume because we are on the Aire & Calder that there must be loads of depth all over, that couldn't be further from the truth. In our marina the average depth must be about 4ft with some depths over 6ft, and many areas less than 3ft. Even down the canal it is easy to touch bottom when approaching the bank. I have been aground twice trying to moor on boats drawing 2ft just down the canal from the docks.
Last Sunday afternoon we noticed water levels were about a foot down but that is not unusual, being by the docks when Ocean Lock is on the go we can go up and down quite a bit. However that evening we started to list and before long we were aground. We then started getting word on social media that there was a breach and Goole would be sealed from the canal by using the emergency stop (stank) gates to protect the docks. Okay we thought, the levels are low, we are aground and have a bit of a list, but we shouldn't get any worse. How wrong we were. The emergency gates leak, so the docks area was draining into the now low canal.
On Monday morning we were about 2ft down, but there was some activity down at the stop gates. Pumps were getting set up to try and get the levels backup in the docks area. Great stuff we thought that would get us back afloat. Despite two 12 inch pumps and other smaller pumps we proceeded to drop another foot. We were well and truly aground with a fantastic list, along with lots of others. Floating pontoons were aground and badly twisted. Even narrowboats moored astern to the bank were aground and bows sloping down, one along from me had water through his front doors and into his cabin. Three other narrowboats who were linear moored and listing alarmingly, had to be dragged off with the marina tug. There was action all over the marina.
Down at the breach on the Monday, they had got a barge loaded with clay and a couple of tugs standing by. Hundreds of bags of material were lined up on the nearby road along with various moving and lifting plant, and then nothing. A helicopter was coming to lift the bags for the breach, only it didn't. Tuesday came and went, no helicopter due to bad visibility. Finally on Wednesday the helicopter arrived and work commenced. The leakage was stopped on Wednesday but the work was fully completed on Thursday. With the CRT/EA resources available on site and available within a couple of miles I still don't understand why the helicopter was their "Plan A", especially with the weather forecast. The costs alone must have been substantially more than it needed to be.
On Wednesday the levels came up slightly, maybe 8-10 inches, and Thursday morning maybe another 4 inches, but that's it, Xmas day and we are still at least 28 inches down, and still listing badly. My missus is determined to still have my 2 sons around for Christmas Dinner. The pumps down at the emergency stop gates are still running but barely holding their own.
I have not been impressed with CRT. Their communications have been diabolical. The MP for the area has openly criticised CRT for their lack of information, while praising the other agencies involved. We were told of the breach by CRT on the Tuesday! There doesn't seem to be a CRT early warning system for their customers so they could be prepared for such events and take appropriate action, after all it could have been far worse. Even today we don't know when levels might be back to somewhere like normal. It looks like everyone has gone home for Christmas to return in the New Year. The rumour in the area is that they are not going to actively raise the levels until the New Year! I wonder what ABP Goole think about that. Goole Docks at a total stand still for 3 weeks. CRT have announced the waterways are closed between Ferrybridge,Goole, and Sykehouse, until the 4th of January. What does that infer?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 11:31:19 GMT
I thought it would be a good idea to give interested parties a run-down of events since the breach occurred, and the current situation regarding boaters in Goole something like 5 miles away. We are moored in Goole Boathouse Marina. The area affected by the breach is from Pollington Lock up to Goole Docks on the Aire & Calder Navigation, and the New Junction Canal up to Sykehouse Lock, so maybe 10 miles of substantial waterway. As a very rough guess I would say there will be about 300-350 boats/barges, moored on this patch. There is our marina, Viking Marina, and the Dog & Duck barge moorings in Goole. Further down is Rawcliffe Bridge Moorings, and at Pollington there are long term moorings also. Of course there is also the small matter of Goole Docks which might have half a dozen ships unloading or loading a day, and various other movements of craft through the tidal locks. We are the last boat moored on the starboard side of the canal before the docks. People assume because we are on the Aire & Calder that there must be loads of depth all over, that couldn't be further from the truth. In our marina the average depth must be about 4ft with some depths over 6ft, and many areas less than 3ft. Even down the canal it is easy to touch bottom when approaching the bank. I have been aground twice trying to moor on boats drawing 2ft just down the canal from the docks. Last Sunday afternoon we noticed water levels were about a foot down but that is not unusual, being by the docks when Ocean Lock is on the go we can go up and down quite a bit. However that evening we started to list and before long we were aground. We then started getting word on social media that there was a breach and Goole would be sealed from the canal by using the emergency stop (stank) gates to protect the docks. Okay we thought, the levels are low, we are aground and have a bit of a list, but we shouldn't get any worse. How wrong we were. The emergency gates leak, so the docks area was draining into the now low canal. On Monday morning we were about 2ft down, but there was some activity down at the stop gates. Pumps were getting set up to try and get the levels backup in the docks area. Great stuff we thought that would get us back afloat. Despite two 12 inch pumps and other smaller pumps we proceeded to drop another foot. We were well and truly aground with a fantastic list, along with lots of others. Floating pontoons were aground and badly twisted. Even narrowboats moored astern to the bank were aground and bows sloping down, one along from me had water through his front doors and into his cabin. Three other narrowboats who were linear moored and listing alarmingly, had to be dragged off with the marina tug. There was action all over the marina. Down at the breach on the Monday, they had got a barge loaded with clay and a couple of tugs standing by. Hundreds of bags of material were lined up on the nearby road along with various moving and lifting plant, and then nothing. A helicopter was coming to lift the bags for the breach, only it didn't. Tuesday came and went, no helicopter due to bad visibility. Finally on Wednesday the helicopter arrived and work commenced. The leakage was stopped on Wednesday but the work was fully completed on Thursday. With the CRT/EA resources available on site and available within a couple of miles I still don't understand why the helicopter was their "Plan A", especially with the weather forecast. The costs alone must have been substantially more than it needed to be. On Wednesday the levels came up slightly, maybe 8-10 inches, and Thursday morning maybe another 4 inches, but that's it, Xmas day and we are still at least 28 inches down, and still listing badly. My missus is determined to still have my 2 sons around for Christmas Dinner. The pumps down at the emergency stop gates are still running but barely holding their own. I have not been impressed with CRT. Their communications have been diabolical. The MP for the area has openly criticised CRT for their lack of information, while praising the other agencies involved. We were told of the breach by CRT on the Tuesday! There doesn't seem to be a CRT early warning system for their customers so they could be prepared for such events and take appropriate action, after all it could have been far worse. Even today we don't know when levels might be back to somewhere like normal. It looks like everyone has gone home for Christmas to return in the New Year. The rumour in the area is that they are not going to actively raise the levels until the New Year! I wonder what ABP Goole think about that. Goole Docks at a total stand still for 3 weeks. CRT have announced the waterways are closed between Ferrybridge,Goole, and Sykehouse, until the 4th of January. What does that infer? Good info. Thanks.
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Post by kris on Dec 26, 2020 10:49:22 GMT
No update on this? I haven’t seen it on the TV news. Mind you it’s in East Yorkshire the lost part of England.
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Post by kris on Dec 26, 2020 11:29:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2020 11:57:42 GMT
Pretty ridiculous really isn’t it. These pricks are really fuckin useless.
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Post by cygnus on Dec 26, 2020 12:31:08 GMT
Yes it looks like the "Repaired" breach is failing. I was sent that video taken this morning. I asked him if there were any staff there, he said "No". I have phoned the CRT emergency number and told them it might be worth a look. I've also messaged the local MP who is already pretty fed up with CRT. It looks like we will be sat on the bottom for a fair while longer.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 26, 2020 12:38:10 GMT
Yes it looks like the "Repaired" breach is failing. I was sent that video taken this morning. I asked him if there were any staff there, he said "No". I have phoned the CRT emergency number and told them it might be worth a look. I've also messaged the local MP who is already pretty fed up with CRT. It looks like we will be sat on the bottom for a fair while longer. You eventually get used to walking up and down hill you know
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Post by JohnV on Dec 26, 2020 12:39:17 GMT
and forgot to ask how was christmas dinner on an angle ?
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