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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 1:24:21 GMT
Its a classic argument - and I agree. My car is almost 15 years old and less than 100,000 on the clock. I anticipate another perhaps 40,000 before rust eats it and expect / hope it will last until its 20th birthday. I expect an analysis of cost of production and cost to the environment over its life-span would compare well to the average electric vehicle. But anyway you look at it, electric vehicles will become the norm and this sort of argument will become less and less realistic. Its probably the older generation who will lament the demise of ICEs the loudest. Also I agree with the notion that in the event of a major collision from the rear (and probably anywhere else) the occupants are toast. In the Yaris, rear seat passengers are a mere 8 inches from the point of collision. I recall a well-known event on the M3 involving a stationary line of traffic and a 10-ton lorry. Driving the lorry had become of secondary importance to messing with the phone. The driver of the lorry, which was on cruise control at the time, apparently apologised to a driver whose car had been damaged but failed to notice there had been another car between the lorry and the other car. It was still there, but had become considerably shorter. My conclusion is that humans are crap at controlling moving vehicles and should be taken out of the loop. Also, speed is the major factor in almost all fatal accidents. It would seem a relatively simple thing to produce a car which is incapable of exceeding the speed limit on any given road by a cross-connection of gps and autonomous driving devices. I tend to drive quite slowly compared to most others these days. Its a mix of not demanding that my old car give everything it has left in one go and parsimony. Any passengers uttering the words 'it would be faster to walk' will be given the opportunity to regret it. Your conclusions are incorrect. Why so sure? It hasn't been tried yet. In any case, such a state of affairs is inevitable.
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Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2021 6:49:55 GMT
Like most "facts" provided by the press it is slanted to get the picture they want.
now ask the question "which produces the most pollution, factoring in that produced by the mining, refining, manufacturing and running a new electric car for the next 10 years, compared to running my existing ICE car for the next ten years"
Incidentally I don't actually know the full details of either but I'll give odds that there will be a length of time that running an existing car (especially if you do a lowish mileage) will be less polluting than buying and running a new electric one for that same time
I agree about fiddling the figures, you are doing it yourself. Of course there will be a few with low mileage, we see them now, get stuck behind them, Old Gimmers, peak of flat cap protruding above the steering wheel of a Rover (autotext suggested Ricer! 🤣🤣 We have that sort of gimmer here🤣🤣) but they are a minority. We need to control the majority to cut emissions and pollution . There is no wriggle room for those who hanker after the past glories,things we used to do.
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Post by ianali on Mar 2, 2021 7:39:56 GMT
Like most "facts" provided by the press it is slanted to get the picture they want.
now ask the question "which produces the most pollution, factoring in that produced by the mining, refining, manufacturing and running a new electric car for the next 10 years, compared to running my existing ICE car for the next ten years"
Incidentally I don't actually know the full details of either but I'll give odds that there will be a length of time that running an existing car (especially if you do a lowish mileage) will be less polluting than buying and running a new electric one for that same time
I agree about fiddling the figures, you are doing it yourself. Of course there will be a few with low mileage, we see them now, get stuck behind them, Old Gimmers, peak of flat cap protruding above the steering wheel of a Rover (autotext suggested Ricer! 🤣🤣 We have that sort of gimmer here🤣🤣) but they are a minority. We need to control the majority to cut emissions and pollution . There is no wriggle room for those who hanker after the past glories,things we used to do. So after a year of covid police, lets now start with the pollution police eh Jim? Us that can afford Tesla cars will be fine. Thank god we have that nice Mr Musk. Saving the human race from ourselves. We are blessed to have such men walk among us, are we not? Well, if we ignore his highly polluting rocket ships and even higher mining schemes. Oh, and the rich can crack on flying around the world in their jets. As long as I don’t start my nasty petrol burner today all will be well. And I hope your boat isn’t using any coal or diesel? Congratulations, you’ve finally made me laugh! Clown 😊
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 8:55:49 GMT
Someone has a thing about electric cars me thinks!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 9:06:23 GMT
It's quite interesting to consider that a modern electric car can be remotely switched off. Whether this feature is implemented I don't know but it would be incredibly easy to do as everything is run by software.
Also interesting for hackers.
If and when it does all go to electric there are a lot of opportunities for state control of personal freedoms.
Using electricity is not the same as burning a fuel product, it is far more controllable. Same goes for heating of buildings.
Long live the wood stove as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by ianali on Mar 2, 2021 9:07:36 GMT
Someone has a thing about electric cars me thinks! Not me. I’m happy for anyone to choose what they drive. It’s those who tell me what I should be driving and believing that EVs will save the human race that annoy me...slightly 😊.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 9:08:01 GMT
The only problem with the argument about running an existing car is that the existing car was new once and the person who bought it originally will have bought another new car.
This theory would only work if everyone bought a new car and ran it for let's say 20 years with nobody buying a new car going forward.
The availability of second hand cars -generally speaking- relies on people buying new ones.
Agnès the Ignis is an exception as it was the last car owned by an elderly gentleman who stopped driving.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 9:10:37 GMT
work with someone who has a Tesla, its fugly but has cool features, and I like the update thing, instead of taking your car to the garage you just connect to wifi and it updates bringing any new features or tweaks.
All round cameras as standard so if anyone gets to close to the car it pings your phone and records them.
I believe petrol engines will be around for a lot of years yet, buying petrol will become a ball ache i imagne, but will be possible, the petrol heads will still be able to tweak and play.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 2, 2021 9:45:01 GMT
The I3 is quick 170 hp 184Ibs torque and it weighs not a lot as its carbon fiber and ali, mid range is awesome 0-60 a touch over 7 seconds 15k wasnt a bad price Nice car but useless for me, no towing capacity. It might be light but it's less powerful than the Yeti which is 180bhp and 410nm of torque.😱 And even with the lack of weight the I3 is only about a second quicker over 0-60 😁 Also range as always will be a problem for me as I don't like stopping on the journey to the boat apart from a quick wee. Plus I am never ever spending £15k on a car Its mid range where its really felt no gears always at its maximum power whatever the revs, its a rex so has a small generator onboard, as yet apart from testing it we have not needed it. Just going out in a minute to sort some electrics on a friends boat, will park at a free charger for a couple of hours job done for another week. As for 15k I had the money its making nothing as savings so might as well enjoy it and its saving me money whilst I do it
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Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2021 9:52:27 GMT
Haha, up pop the ricer gimmers. I don't have a thing about electric cars per se, but about doing my bit for the climate. Latest climate change news, the Atlantic Conveyor is slowing. We will know about it here when it stops.
But carry on lads, never mind. as you were. pootling blindly to oblivion. I'm only propagating my views, in the slim hope of encouragement, others will force the issue. I don't have a problem with a few petrol driven toys being left behind at the lights by electric cars (or ebikes) either. It's the majority of daily journey transport that needs changing.
Volvo have just announced hybrids from '25, e only from '30. Wise move.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 2, 2021 9:52:31 GMT
It's a bit ironic but a good way for a company like Tesla to get into the market is to sell premium cars to people who already have the V8 petrol thing but want to also have an electric car to show off their "green" attitude. Despite the fact that they are incredibly heavy consumers of energy in every way. The theory is that after a while the company can move to more ordinary and genuinely sustainable products over time. I'm not sure if this will happen with Tesla and I suspect they are a flash in the pan marketing device but it will be interesting to watch it going forward.. If I live long enough! Smaller cheaper electric cars are planned by Tesla, the problem is a lot of car makers only make an electric car as a top of the range thing, the I3 is specced up to what you want, mine has a leather interior and a few other bits and bobs.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 2, 2021 9:57:46 GMT
Haha, up pop the ricer gimmers. I don't have a thing about electric cars per se, but about doing my bit for the climate. Latest climate change news, the Atlantic Conveyor is slowing. We will know about it here when it stops. But carry on lads, never mind. as you were. pootling blindly to oblivion. I'm only propagating my views, in the slim hope of encouragement, others will force the issue. I don't have a problem with a few petrol driven toys being left behind at the lights by electric cars (or ebikes) either. It's the majority of daily journey transport that needs changing. Volvo have just announced hybrids from '25, e only from '30. Wise move. Jim at the moment its gentle persuasion maybe tomorrow the pain will begin? The change to electric means the last 350 miles have been free and have produced less pollution, I hardly need brakes as regen is so good at slowing the car. I clearly believe in electric as my boats are the same, I saved another 25% on the license again in Feb so long may it continue
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Post by ianali on Mar 2, 2021 10:11:30 GMT
work with someone who has a Tesla, its fugly but has cool features, and I like the update thing, instead of taking your car to the garage you just connect to wifi and it updates bringing any new features or tweaks. All round cameras as standard so if anyone gets to close to the car it pings your phone and records them. I believe petrol engines will be around for a lot of years yet, buying petrol will become a ball ache i imagne, but will be possible, the petrol heads will still be able to tweak and play. Yeh I’m guessing il still be running petrol engines in another ten years at least. After that I’m hoping that hydrogen has found its way into modern life. I know many think it won’t, but I’ve had many interesting chats with my neighbour who is senior development manager at MIRA. He thinks hydrogen could well be a major part of motoring future. He knows more than we do, so my fingers are crossed. Anyway. I’ve got a date with my boat now, and a couple of litres of petrol to burn getting there 😍.
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Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2021 10:43:12 GMT
work with someone who has a Tesla, its fugly but has cool features, and I like the update thing, instead of taking your car to the garage you just connect to wifi and it updates bringing any new features or tweaks. All round cameras as standard so if anyone gets to close to the car it pings your phone and records them. I believe petrol engines will be around for a lot of years yet, buying petrol will become a ball ache i imagne, but will be possible, the petrol heads will still be able to tweak and play. Yeh I’m guessing il still be running petrol engines in another ten years at least. After that I’m hoping that hydrogen has found its way into modern life. I know many think it won’t, but I’ve had many interesting chats with my neighbour who is senior development manager at MIRA. He thinks hydrogen could well be a major part of motoring future. He knows more than we do, so my fingers are crossed. Anyway. I’ve got a date with my boat now, and a couple of litres of petrol to burn getting there 😍. I agree about hydrogen, however while it's an inefficient waste of electrickery it's better where possible to use batteries. Developments in splitting water with a variety of catalysts are happening, as is safe hydrogen storage, eg the paste I posted about. The outboard on my boat could readily be converted to hydrogen, afaik there's already a Honda kit for lpg.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 17:22:38 GMT
Yeh I’m guessing il still be running petrol engines in another ten years at least. After that I’m hoping that hydrogen has found its way into modern life. I know many think it won’t, but I’ve had many interesting chats with my neighbour who is senior development manager at MIRA. He thinks hydrogen could well be a major part of motoring future. He knows more than we do, so my fingers are crossed. Anyway. I’ve got a date with my boat now, and a couple of litres of petrol to burn getting there 😍. I agree about hydrogen, however while it's an inefficient waste of electrickery it's better where possible to use batteries. Developments in splitting water with a variety of catalysts are happening, as is safe hydrogen storage, eg the paste I posted about. The outboard on my boat could readily be converted to hydrogen, afaik there's already a Honda kit for lpg. I always thought burning the water in a system which has a finite amount of the stuff is an excellent idea.
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