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Post by Saltysplash on Apr 29, 2016 13:19:11 GMT
I cant imagine anything worse than an EU Military Force.
How many eeting would it take before any action or inaction would be decided upon and guess who will be paying large quantities of wonga into it, oh yes, the Brits.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 29, 2016 14:14:14 GMT
The Italians lost miserably in World War 2 as they were rubbish. The Germans lost as Hitler made a giant mistake about how cold it gets in Russia and his troops ended up starving and freezing to death. The French have been a pain in England's arse since time began - and they can't run their own country. Romania? Huh! Bulgaria? Well, they make jam, be fair. Greece? Bunch of thieves - half of the EU's dough already pumped into that cesspit. Can anyone seriously imagine a 'European Army/Military'? We don't even speak the same language (the Americans do - a sloppy form of English, but they all understand each other). We can't even fathom out the absolute corruption that's going on in Brussels with the lazy politicians (some who even wake up late for work) let alone get a real insight into what Putin-and-pals have in their minds. And then there's Turkey's Hitler trying to swamp Europe with 75 million kebab-&-pizza makers. The biggest weapon is the one that rules, and who has those atom bombs? USA, Russia, China, the UK and France were the original ones. India and Pakistan claim to have them (but if they did they would have already chucked them at each other so I don't believe them). North Korea - just laughable, that fat chump with the toffee-apple haircut. I'd keep an eye on Japan - surely they, of all countries, would love to pay back what they got handed out in WW2 ? If the UK has nukes, and they work, there's nothing to worry about. Just about how to keep the 'fuel' for them coming in (where does Uranium come from? Canada? USA?) and to make sure there are no nutters to sabotage the system (we all know what nutters can do!). At the end of the day all humans lose their civilised dignity and it is the biggest club that smashes the most skulls. Even for the very rich people who are running the whole show, they must have a lot of juggling to do keeping everyone under control. Ha ha Ross a fairly accurate view of the EU and ant thoughts to an Army
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Post by thebfg on Apr 29, 2016 15:06:40 GMT
I don't think I would vote to stay in in hope of one day forming an EU army. Since when has any European country backed us in a war. I would hate a joint army as sometimes we need to fight our own battles.
If the argies had another pop at the Falklands or Spain wanted the rock back, I can only guess we would not be allowed to go alone.
One reason I want out, Is to govern ourselves. We elect people to run this country on our behalf, to make decisions we are unable to make. Why would I also want an unelected muppet telling our forces where and when to fight, I don't even like them making rules on anything let alone something so big.
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Post by loafer on Apr 29, 2016 19:29:02 GMT
People don't seem to realise that things have moved on since the 60s and 70s. Don't you remember we had two superpowers and a sometimes not very Cold War? Europe was just a collection of small states without any ability to influence the face-off between the US and the Soviet Union, which sometimes became very tense indeed.
Do you want to go back to those days? The EU if properly united at least will provide a third force to temper expansionism and self-interest on both sides. I agree that Russia feels aggrieved by their loss of territory since Soviet days, and that the US should back off on this - they became even more paranoid about Communist influences on their doorstep 50 years ago.
Disintegration of the EU instead of extra unification will give no such buffer, and further wars in Europe will become more likely, to put it mildly. That's about NATO really. We aren't considering leaving NATO, are we?
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Post by loafer on Apr 29, 2016 19:32:49 GMT
Peterboat, there seems to be a few unnecessary letters in your surname, if you'll pardon me for saying so.
Is it pronounced 'Shessy-ack'?
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Post by thebfg on Apr 29, 2016 22:34:33 GMT
People don't seem to realise that things have moved on since the 60s and 70s. Don't you remember we had two superpowers and a sometimes not very Cold War? Europe was just a collection of small states without any ability to influence the face-off between the US and the Soviet Union, which sometimes became very tense indeed.
Do you want to go back to those days? The EU if properly united at least will provide a third force to temper expansionism and self-interest on both sides. I agree that Russia feels aggrieved by their loss of territory since Soviet days, and that the US should back off on this - they became even more paranoid about Communist influences on their doorstep 50 years ago.
Disintegration of the EU instead of extra unification will give no such buffer, and further wars in Europe will become more likely, to put it mildly. That's about NATO really. We aren't considering leaving NATO, are we?
no. personally I feel that would be bad, for all its downfalls at least its a consensus and all the members take action together, seems it involves nearly all of Europe at least that's the closet we would get to an EU army.
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 30, 2016 1:18:35 GMT
It seems to me that 'us' and 'them' from my viewpoint means something quite different to most of those posting here.
To me 'them' means those actively pursuing our defeat and destruction (at the moment ISIS mostly, but Putin needs keeping an eye on), and 'us' is the rest, with Europe first.
Anything more parochial than that is unworthy, and causes resentment and misunderstanding. It is not seeing the big picture. Unfortunately most people do not see the big picture. That's why wars happen.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 30, 2016 4:37:00 GMT
I can't help thinking 'ISIS' is just something invented to keep us all scared, just like what the Americans do with their 'red/yellow/oange alerts' to keep the sheeple in fear and panic and ready to stump up a big proportion of their income and working conditions in order to support the arms industry who are laughing all the way to their Swiss/Panama/Liechtenstein/Monaca/Isle of Man secret banks accounts. Wanna get cheeky? Show a beheading video. That'll shut them up for another few minutes (says various governments about their flocks). Osama bin Laden was the bogeyman until people thought this farce just can't be strung out much longer: just how is he surviving in a cave in Pakistan with a dialysis machine? He's behind you - run away, run away! So then they shoot him and chuck the body out of a plane to 'prevent him from being turned into a martyr'? Who makes this dumb shit up? And people believe it? It's fun to have a poke at subjects like this, but I'm sure there are very few (if any) canal boaters who have the faintest knowledge of what is really happening behind the scenes. I bet the bankers, those who see the money flowing from account to account, have the best grasp of the world situation. Oh no.... there's the knock on the door.... who would have believed they read Thunderboat?!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 4:57:52 GMT
I can't help thinking 'ISIS' is just something invented to keep us all scared, just like what the Americans do with their 'red/yellow/oange alerts' to keep the sheeple in fear and panic and ready to stump up a big proportion of their income and working conditions in order to support the arms industry who are laughing all the way to their Swiss/Panama/Liechtenstein/Monaca/Isle of Man secret banks accounts. Wanna get cheeky? Show a beheading video. That'll shut them up for another few minutes (says various governments about their flocks). Osama bin Laden was the bogeyman until people thought this farce just can't be strung out much longer: just how is he surviving in a cave in Pakistan with a dialysis machine? He's behind you - run away, run away! So then they shoot him and chuck the body out of a plane to 'prevent him from being turned into a martyr'? Who makes this dumb shit up? And people believe it? It's fun to have a poke at subjects like this, but I'm sure there are very few (if any) canal boaters who have the faintest knowledge of what is really happening behind the scenes. I bet the bankers, those who see the money flowing from account to account, have the best grasp of the world situation. Oh no.... there's the knock on the door.... who would have believed they read Thunderboat?!! Maybe a lot of truth in this but as you say, we probably don't have a clue what's really going on.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 9:32:18 GMT
It seems to me that 'us' and 'them' from my viewpoint means something quite different to most of those posting here. To me 'them' means those actively pursuing our defeat and destruction (at the moment ISIS mostly, but Putin needs keeping an eye on), and 'us' is the rest, with Europe first. Anything more parochial than that is unworthy, and causes resentment and misunderstanding. It is not seeing the big picture. Unfortunately most people do not see the big picture. That's why wars happen. I don't think you see the big picture and thats why I will be voting out. I note this morning that polls are calling it neck and neck,with the result hinging on Pensioners and turnout,it has been a total disgrace in this so called democratic country of ours that the Media has not been held to account for bias and one sided reporting,I realise we have touched on this several times on this thread but honestly,this fear mongering just goes on and on and on
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Post by thebfg on Apr 30, 2016 12:23:58 GMT
It seems to me that 'us' and 'them' from my viewpoint means something quite different to most of those posting here. To me 'them' means those actively pursuing our defeat and destruction (at the moment ISIS mostly, but Putin needs keeping an eye on), and 'us' is the rest, with Europe first. Anything more parochial than that is unworthy, and causes resentment and misunderstanding. It is not seeing the big picture. Unfortunately most people do not see the big picture. That's why wars happen. I don't think you see the big picture and thats why I will be voting out. I note this morning that polls are calling it neck and neck,with the result hinging on Pensioners and turnout,it has been a total disgrace in this so called democratic country of ours that the Media has not been held to account for bias and one sided reporting,I realise we have touched on this several times on this thread but honestly,this fear mongering just goes on and on and on
Im Voting out, but im not sure weather in or out, that our armed forces, war and nato would be any different. Certainly if in it could be worse. If any European task force took on a major war, I am convinced they would still ask us to join in through Nato. The media are just shit stirring to suit their own agenda's, one the BBC should be held account for. But its going to get worse the closer we get.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 30, 2016 13:45:59 GMT
Peterboat, there seems to be a few unnecessary letters in your surname, if you'll pardon me for saying so. Is it pronounced 'Shessy-ack'? Very close, polish father fought in the second world war and demobbed here. Shortage of men so he settled here
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Post by loafer on Apr 30, 2016 17:51:01 GMT
Ah see. Thank you!
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