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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 21:32:04 GMT
Oxford University reports today,750,000 European Economic Migrants entered Britain in the last year. these migrants came from Spain,Italy and Romania in the main.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 14, 2016 4:11:04 GMT
'War refugees' surely? Perhaps one idea would be for 30 million Brits to move to Spain and offer to do the jobs the Spaniards are doing for half their wages? That'll teach 'em to send Armadas round 'ere. Gotta beat them at their own game
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Post by Albion on Apr 14, 2016 10:00:09 GMT
We received our Remain, government propaganda leaflet through the door yesterday. I have posted it back today to David Cameron at Downing Street with the words 'Lies, Half Truths and Distortions. Returned to sender' written on it. It won't reach him of course as he will be likely receiving many of them, but it makes me feel better. Roger
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 10:03:31 GMT
We received our Remain, government propaganda leaflet through the door yesterday. I have posted it back today to David Cameron at Downing Street with the words 'Lies, Half Truths and Distortions. Returned to sender' written on it. It won't reach him of course as he will be likely receiving many of them, but it makes me feel better. Roger Lol....that's a good idea.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 11:38:39 GMT
We received our Remain, government propaganda leaflet through the door yesterday. I have posted it back today to David Cameron at Downing Street with the words 'Lies, Half Truths and Distortions. Returned to sender' written on it. It won't reach him of course as he will be likely receiving many of them, but it makes me feel better. Roger hadn't thought of that.....excellent idea
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 14, 2016 16:51:14 GMT
Well if the original intention was to have complete integration, then they should have had the courage of their convictions (and mine) and got on with it to form a United States of Europe instead of the half-baked mess we have now. Less than total unification will never be satisfactory.
The same applies to the UK - I voted against devolution for Scotland back in the day, but it went ahead and look what happened - the bloody SNP want to tear the country apart. Ironically, they want to be part of the EU, which is inconsistent to say the least.
Your all over the place over Europe I fear.What do you mean by total Unification? Currency as well? You say its a half baked mess yet want to remain in clinging to the foolish belief we can change it by being a part of it. Do you know that Britain has never won a vote in Europe,not one single vote,EVER. It was a hoodwinking exercise by Heath and co and thats the problem and even if we do vote to stay I think that it will not be by a sufficient margin to make the BREXIT ISSUE go away.A climate of fear is being created and people are falling for it. As for the SNP in Scotland, it was Labour treating the electorate with contempt that caused the situation we are now in and to be honest once you get past the Flag Waving you have to ask where is the Economic Case for separation? There is none and that is why it was rejected. I am absolutely not all over the place. I've made my entirely consistent opinion very clear, even if it is unpopular here. Yes, currency as well - you can hardly have a complete political union without currency union, can you? I'm not concerned who wins votes in Europe as long as decisions are democratic. I am just as concerned about the future of the other regions of Europe as I am about the UK.
I certainly agree with you that this vote will not settle the issue once and for all. The same applies to the Scottish independence referendum. Both are poisoning the atmosphere between what should be close and friendly allies, and therefore neither should have taken place.
I supported the continued total union between Scotland and the rest of the UK, ie I voted against devolution long before the independence referendum.
And I support total union between the UK and the rest of Europe. If this isn't consistent, what is?
Don't forget we were gagging to join Europe when De Gaulle refused us. If the agenda of total union had been publically aired then, then I believe it would have been accepted and Europe would have been one of the most influential states in the world.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2016 16:57:01 GMT
I posted mine back this morning as well would love to see the articulated lorry draw up and dump the lot on his doorstep!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:21:10 GMT
Your all over the place over Europe I fear.What do you mean by total Unification? Currency as well? You say its a half baked mess yet want to remain in clinging to the foolish belief we can change it by being a part of it. Do you know that Britain has never won a vote in Europe,not one single vote,EVER. It was a hoodwinking exercise by Heath and co and thats the problem and even if we do vote to stay I think that it will not be by a sufficient margin to make the BREXIT ISSUE go away.A climate of fear is being created and people are falling for it. As for the SNP in Scotland, it was Labour treating the electorate with contempt that caused the situation we are now in and to be honest once you get past the Flag Waving you have to ask where is the Economic Case for separation? There is none and that is why it was rejected. I am absolutely not all over the place. I've made my entirely consistent opinion very clear, even if it is unpopular here. Yes, currency as well - you can hardly have a complete political union without currency union, can you? I'm not concerned who wins votes in Europe as long as decisions are democratic. I am just as concerned about the future of the other regions of Europe as I am about the UK.
I certainly agree with you that this vote will not settle the issue once and for all. The same applies to the Scottish independence referendum. Both are poisoning the atmosphere between what should be close and friendly allies, and therefore neither should have taken place.
I supported the continued total union between Scotland and the rest of the UK, ie I voted against devolution long before the independence referendum.
And I support total union between the UK and the rest of Europe. If this isn't consistent, what is?
Don't forget we were gagging to join Europe when De Gaulle refused us. If the agenda of total union had been publically aired then, then I believe it would have been accepted and Europe would have been one of the most influential states in the world.
I read all that you say and its a perfectly valid viewpoint,however it is clearly not democratic, you admit in your previous post its a mess but still you want in? The EU is a complete basket case.How can you say your not concerned who wins votes as long as they are democratic ?
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Post by Albion on Apr 14, 2016 21:26:45 GMT
Don't forget we were gagging to join Europe when De Gaulle refused us. If the agenda of total union had been publically aired then, then I believe it would have been accepted and Europe would have been one of the most influential states in the world.
I'm not entirely sure that you can say the British public were gagging for it. Heath certainly was. Yes, there never was any mention to the public that political union was even being considered. It was a Common Market, a trading bloc and had a lot of appeal as, in many ways, the UK was a bit of an economic basket case with continuous strikes and was considered the weak man of Europe. The decision to back continued membership in 1975 was encouraged by that economic background and the strength and dominance of some of the markets that we were trying to sell to. I voted to remain in at the time but I am not convinced that I would have done if I had realised that it was intended to become a political union. Certainly, these days, the UK is a completely different animal in terms of its success and economy and so just because we have been steered down a hidden path there is no absolute imperative to continue further. I believe that there will be some economic uncertainty and it might make us slightly worse off for a while but that is a price that I am prepared to pay if it means the freedom to run our own affairs. I don't have any problem about meeting European specs in order to sell to the EU, say in the case of emissions and safety standards on cars for example. For manufacturers such as Jaguar Land Rover selling into the US we already have to comply with standards that are more stringent than Europe, for example CARB (Californian Air Resources Board). So why would we be disadvantaged by being required to comply with European specs in order to sell into the EU? Roger
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Post by Saltysplash on Apr 14, 2016 22:04:56 GMT
So I see today Mr Corbyn has abandoned his principles and staked his claim firmly in the 'IN' camp. Ian Dale on LBC earlier was suggesting he is following the prty line showing a united front as any politcal leader should. I thought that this was going to be a free vote and was something far bigger than Party Politics, but it seems Jezza would like to hold onto his job as Labour leader after all and is happy now to no longer vote with his concience.
OUT! £350 million a week
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 15, 2016 13:48:23 GMT
I believe that there will be some economic uncertainty and it might make us slightly worse off for a while but that is a price that I am prepared to pay if it means the freedom to run our own affairs. Roger I am not concerned whether the UK is better or worse off in or out.
I am not concerned about the UK running its own affairs. I voted against Scotland running its own affairs.
I am concerned about the fate of Europe and therefore the world. This would be endangered if we leave. Both economically and politically.
Can't say clearer than that, can I?
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Post by JohnV on Apr 15, 2016 14:35:17 GMT
I believe that there will be some economic uncertainty and it might make us slightly worse off for a while but that is a price that I am prepared to pay if it means the freedom to run our own affairs. Roger I am not concerned whether the UK is better or worse off in or out.
I am not concerned about the UK running its own affairs. I voted against Scotland running its own affairs.
I am concerned about the fate of Europe and therefore the world. This would be endangered if we leave. Both economically and politically.
Can't say clearer than that, can I?
It is tough, as yet again, so many of our desires are parallel yet the routes we think will achieve it are so different
I believe that the EU is too big and will get bigger. It is my belief that the greater the size and the more monolithic it becomes the less effective it will be. In the end I think it's ability to react and agree a course of action, will be so slow as to be totally ineffective in dealing with any problems, either internal or external.
A stagnant moribund society, sooner or later will collapse in a catastrophic fashion
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Post by Albion on Apr 15, 2016 15:06:59 GMT
I am concerned about the fate of Europe and therefore the world. This would be endangered if we leave. Both economically and politically.
Can't say clearer than that, can I?
I would be interested to know why you feel that Europe would be endangered? Economically, they would lose the second largest net contributor but they would survive. Some of the other countries would have to take up the slack or, God forbid, the EU might have to cut its coat according to the cloth available. Politically, why do you believe that we are significant? Cameron has proved that, even with the threat of a Brexit, the EU isn't prepared to make any significant changes to its present format. That clearly illustrates that they don't think we are that important politically or they would be more worried about our exit. So many of the Remain group admit that the EU needs significant reform but, if they won't reform when we might leave, they certainly aren't going to reform if we chicken out and stay in. What they might be worried about is our exit rocking the stability of the EU boat and starting a snowball effect among other European citizens that causes them (the citizens) to question their continued membership. Not all EU citizens, despite what their political leaders say, are super supportive of the EU bureaucracy. What we do have on our side is the size of our economy (which is why the Norway and Switzerland comparisons are fatuous) and the size of our trade deficit with Europe. They aren't going to refuse to service such a large customer. Roger
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 15:20:52 GMT
I believe that there will be some economic uncertainty and it might make us slightly worse off for a while but that is a price that I am prepared to pay if it means the freedom to run our own affairs. Roger I am not concerned whether the UK is better or worse off in or out.
I am not concerned about the UK running its own affairs. I voted against Scotland running its own affairs.
I am concerned about the fate of Europe and therefore the world. This would be endangered if we leave. Both economically and politically.
Can't say clearer than that, can I?
You make your position clear,I just can't see why you are so fearful? and like all these IN people you haven't convinced me.There is only one fear the INS could have and thats fear of the unknown. Cowardice they called it in The Great War
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 15, 2016 17:54:10 GMT
You make your position clear,I just can't see why you are so fearful? and like all these IN people you haven't convinced me.There is only one fear the INS could have and thats fear of the unknown. Cowardice they called it in The Great War Who says I am fearful? Don't make things up and put words into peoples mouths.
The results of both an In or Out vote are equally uncertain (but not entirely unknown).
Using the word cowardice borders on the offensive.
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