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Post by kris on May 28, 2021 22:21:43 GMT
I think its quite good to remember how companies made their money when they started.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 22:25:43 GMT
I didnt explain myself properly- there is never any moving on from genocide, in that the horror must always be preserved to teach future generations. But in the case of commercial companies who were involved, maybe 80 years is long enough that we no longer have a negative opinion of them- at least in relation to their activities during the war. And provided they are no longer involved in genocide. If IKEA used slave labour in the 80s that is a rather different thing. But that said, most of us wear the odd item of clothing that may well have been produced by what is essentially slave labour, so maybe we're all a bit hypocritical. And to be honest, I'm more concerned about the ethical behaviour of companies in the here and now, e.g. the treatment of animals reared for food. It seems our Australian trade deal is leaving the door open for some organisations to import the meat of animals which have been treated in ways that would never be legal in this country. Not wanting to get into the whole whataboutism thing, but I dont think anyone can really beat up a firm for things that were done 80 years ago. It's a fair point. After all here I am typing on a computer that uses tech developed in that episode whilst wearing a t-shirt made in some sweatshop. But the preservation of history is a good thing. I once met an Indian chap who angrily told me that British colonialism was responsible for the creation of the caste system and was disgusted to hear that it is in fact thousands of years old. I wouldn't worry too much though, I'm fairly confident most people under the age of thirty don't give two fucks about such things. Certainly no-one under the age of 30 will give even a single f**k about the atrocities committed by the staff of the school tuck shop on the one afternoon it was left in my criminal hands. There was child labour- in fact slave labour, of a sort- certainly there was extortion, fraud, and I think false accounting. It was a short but glorious criminal career, but it was 35 years ago. Its a different crew run that shop these days, but the old values are probably still going strong.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 22:33:25 GMT
I think its quite good to remember how companies made their money when they started. I totally agree Kris- it is absolutely critical to remember these things. But being aware of a firm's history is a different thing to holding a grudge or a negative opinion about that firm today, for things that happened many decades ago.
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Post by kris on May 28, 2021 22:33:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 22:46:21 GMT
In fairness Kris, that Union complaint is different to the historical issues about slave labour. We have all created a world in which companies are increasingly free to harass and abuse their employees without serious consequences. IKEA are just one example of dozens. If you have ever received an Amazon parcel, for example, you are supporting an employer who allegedly treat their staff far worse than IKEA. And there are many others. I dont want to come across as some sort of IKEA defender here, btw. I'm basically looking for an ethical position that allows me to boycott the furniture, but still eat the Swedish meatballs and the hotdogs.
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Post by kris on May 28, 2021 22:48:59 GMT
I think you might have missed a link.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 23:04:15 GMT
I think you might have missed a link. I assumed the second link would be a similar issue to the first, but it is not- forced labour is far more serious. That said, most global companies now have some sort of links to forced labour. There are 83 named that benefit from forced Uyghur labour in China in this report: www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=28c4df54-cd5b-4f64-991c-543f032fbbbdIt includes Adidas, Jaguar, Lacoste, Lenovo, Mitsubishi, Nike, Nintendo- basically you name it. The world has gone mad- they're all at it, not just IKEA.
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Post by kris on May 29, 2021 4:32:12 GMT
Doesn’t make it right or mean we need to support them. Obviously it’s not always easy to avoid but if you can, why not?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 6:22:50 GMT
Doesn’t make it right or mean we need to support them. Obviously it’s not always easy to avoid but if you can, why not? Your original objection to IKEA was based on things they did during the war, which was why I was less inclined towards persecuting them today. But if your objection to their products is actually based on their current practices that is a different thing altogether, and any reasonable person would have to be sympathetic to your views on that. If you only make one stand against one company who benefit from forced labour by boycotting IKEA, then that is better than doing nothing. But there are many UK firms benefitting from unethical manufacturing, and before boycotting IKEA, I would want to be satisfied that picking on external companies like IKEA was not due to a distrust or dislike of foreigners, as much as it was for their business practices. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but using ethical objections as a cloak for xenophobic feelings would not really be helping anyone, so if we are going to boycott companies, why not start at home, with some UK companies like Jaguar? Our problem as modern consumers is that most of the global companies whose products we actually need are involved in, or benefit from, highly unethical practices. My personal approach to ethical manufacturing is to avoid products that come from factory farmed animals that live in horrific conditions, and its not easy as it includes a lot of ready meals and meat products which I am very fond of eating. Its really difficult in some cases for people to source ethically produced food, e.g. for some low-income families who trying to feed several children, its hard to overlook a factory farmed chicken because of the lower price.
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Post by patty on May 29, 2021 6:28:59 GMT
Making a fast buck off the backs of poorly paid workers has been around forever... Changing the way the World revolves is a huge task and is the World committed to such a move? I like history and I wish we could learn from the past but we don't I try to buy stuff that's not sweat shop produced but its not easy and of course its a lot more expensive...there are lots of firms that I didn't realise sourced goods from these poorly paid workers. I guess I just did not think. I wonder if in reality only the wealthy really have the funds to solely buy produce that's originated from a well paid, well treated workforce?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 7:08:03 GMT
Alright ... forget the chairs ... sorry I asked ... I'll go knit some ethically sourced reeds together.
Rog
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Post by kris on May 29, 2021 7:09:49 GMT
Alright ... forget the chairs ... sorry I asked ... I'll go knit some ethically sourced reeds together. Rog Look we enjoyed your thread whilst you where away. So just pick up your dummy and get on with it.😀
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Post by kris on May 29, 2021 7:22:05 GMT
Ps. I could probably sell you some ethically sourced reads, if you need.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 7:26:29 GMT
Alright ... forget the chairs ... sorry I asked ... I'll go knit some ethically sourced reeds together. Rog Sorry Rog, did this start with chairs? Bloody hell. Actually, from what I've seen, I think quaysider's bosun counts as forced labour, so there are ethical issues there. Now that I think of it, I'm going to be forced to make my own cup of coffee in a few minutes. Ideally I would have a butler or something, but as it is, I'm being forced to do it. Surely that cant be right....
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 8:43:28 GMT
This IKEA chairs are rubbish, don’t get them, we had two with footrests for a while and after half hour you regret it
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