|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2021 13:47:30 GMT
The number of people leaving must be known through the use of passenger manifests on ships and planes. But as far as I know, that data isn’t collated. Whilst the raw numbers could in theory be calculated from that data, it wouldn’t be possible to work out whether the numbers were made up from native Brits, or from migrants. One can buy a plane, ferry or train ticket simply on the basis of a name. Whenever I've been through Dover or one of the other Channel crossings, and we are talking hundreds of times here, my passport has been scanned by P&O or Stena Line or whoever at check-in.
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jun 8, 2021 13:47:51 GMT
"Shoppers face higher prices or possibly even empty shelves unless more is done to help end a shortage of lorry drivers, the industry has warned. One leading Welsh haulier said lorry firms were facing a "perfect storm", caught between Brexit and Covid. Owens Group in Carmarthenshire said it had lost 50 drivers who were EU citizens, as they did not meet the new criteria for skilled work visas". www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57354636Good. Off you trot then Stanislav. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. So sitting down all day isn't skilled work? Well I never... Lorry drivers holding the country to ransome for higher pay, how Labour Trade Unionist dahling.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2021 13:53:48 GMT
"Shoppers face higher prices or possibly even empty shelves unless more is done to help end a shortage of lorry drivers, the industry has warned. One leading Welsh haulier said lorry firms were facing a "perfect storm", caught between Brexit and Covid. Owens Group in Carmarthenshire said it had lost 50 drivers who were EU citizens, as they did not meet the new criteria for skilled work visas". www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57354636Good. Off you trot then Stanislav. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. So sitting down all day isn't skilled work? Well I never... Lorry drivers holding the country to ransome for higher pay, how Labour Trade Unionist dahling. No, it's not skilled work and neither should it be re-classified as skilled work. Rather, the pay should increase (as is happening). However, nobody is being "held to ransome" (Arthur Ransome?) as wage levels in road transport are about as pure a form of supply and demand in action as you can get. Pay more money and you get more drivers. More money for me along the way. What's not to like?
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 8, 2021 14:46:05 GMT
The economic term to describe the relationship between pay for British drivers and the amount of them prepared to do the job: price-elastic.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jun 8, 2021 14:58:29 GMT
But as far as I know, that data isn’t collated. Whilst the raw numbers could in theory be calculated from that data, it wouldn’t be possible to work out whether the numbers were made up from native Brits, or from migrants. One can buy a plane, ferry or train ticket simply on the basis of a name. Whenever I've been through Dover or one of the other Channel crossings, and we are talking hundreds of times here, my passport has been scanned by P&O or Stena Line or whoever at check-in. Yes but pretty sure they are just checking it’s valid. Anyway, I have no experience of channel crossing, only of international flights. For that, you have to show your passport at the gate but mostly they just look at it to check it’s you and it’s valid and you have a valid visa if required. Some destination countries do require you to submit passport info but this goes to the destination country, not the U.K.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2021 15:06:47 GMT
Whenever I've been through Dover or one of the other Channel crossings, and we are talking hundreds of times here, my passport has been scanned by P&O or Stena Line or whoever at check-in. Yes but pretty sure they are just checking it’s valid. Anyway, I have no experience of channel crossing, only of international flights. For that, you have to show your passport at the gate but mostly they just look at it to check it’s you and it’s valid and you have a valid visa if required. Some destination countries do require you to submit passport info but this goes to the destination country, not the U.K. I accept that it may be different for freight, but you could see the check-n staff member running the passport through the scanner. Now they have chips they probably don't even have to do that for the information to be recorded.
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Jun 8, 2021 15:50:17 GMT
The number of people leaving must be known through the use of passenger manifests on ships and planes. One can buy a plane, ferry or train ticket simply on the basis of a name. Need Passport for all of those if international travel. Passports have already for many years been scanned, and this will show up anything the 'authorities' want, such as unpaid parking tickets, and they can prevent you from getting any further. They know where you've showed your Passport. Even for train/bus travel within the UK if you book it on-line you'll most likely have the ticket/details sent to the app on your phone and to your e-mail address. All this is recorded. You think they're not reading your e-mails? With the 'vaccine passport' that'll be another layer of identification - and that will have everything about you on it, all your health info, and what colour socks you bought in Primark. You can still go to a railway station in the UK and pay cash for a ticket and jump on a train and go somewhere without it being known - although.... there are all those pesky CCTV cameras even if you've left your mobile phone at home. And if your phone is not seen moving around for a while, or being used.... well.... that's suspicious!
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jun 8, 2021 16:03:50 GMT
Ok so I just checked the government website. I am 6 years out of date. Apparently U.K. border force has been recording people leaving the U.K. since 2015. Fair enough, but we have no idea who out of all the people who came into the U.K. prior to 2015, may or may not have left the U.K. again before 2015.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2021 16:31:18 GMT
No, it's not skilled work and neither should it be re-classified as skilled work. I think there is a huge amount of skill needed to drive a lorry/truck. There is a huge responsibility. You need to know exactly what it is you're supposed to be doing, you need to be able to drive and know your vehicle, there are timetables and all kinds of other things to be dealt with. Same with bus driving. At least what I do is often horribly complicated and you need to be thinking all of the time and using your wits and experience. Buses are (usually) just 'one block' and are easy to reverse.... most of the trucks in Finland are 'combination' (2-part) and when I have seen them reversing along tiny sand roads I have lifted my hat in acknowledgement of their nerve and capability. In fairness to Jim, it cannot be considered "skilled" in quite the same way as running around wearing a pair of hugely oversized shoes and blowing a honk horn.
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jun 8, 2021 17:23:38 GMT
I think there is a huge amount of skill needed to drive a lorry/truck. There is a huge responsibility. You need to know exactly what it is you're supposed to be doing, you need to be able to drive and know your vehicle, there are timetables and all kinds of other things to be dealt with. Same with bus driving. At least what I do is often horribly complicated and you need to be thinking all of the time and using your wits and experience. Buses are (usually) just 'one block' and are easy to reverse.... most of the trucks in Finland are 'combination' (2-part) and when I have seen them reversing along tiny sand roads I have lifted my hat in acknowledgement of their nerve and capability. In fairness to Jim, it cannot be considered "skilled" in quite the same way as running around wearing a pair of hugely oversized shoes and blowing a honk horn. Better than working for a living. 😉
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2021 17:44:27 GMT
In fairness to Jim, it cannot be considered "skilled" in quite the same way as running around wearing a pair of hugely oversized shoes and blowing a honk horn. Better than working for a living. 😉 Well, same as driving a truck really. I said above that I don't consider it to be a skilled job and in fact I only gravitated towards it because I have no skills whatsoever. I don't even have social skills. I am also extremely idle by nature and would not like to do a job where there was even a slight risk that I might break out in a sweat. Plus I have a very short attention span and ten days is about as much training as I'd ever want to do to qualify for something. But I always loved travel, and it seemed like a good opportunity to do some while being paid to do it and with free accommodation thrown in. And I got enough time off to visit Red Square in Moscow, The Blue Mosque in Istanbul, the Little Mermaid in Copenhagen, the Reichstag in Berlin, the Potemkin Steps in Odessa, been up mountains in Switzerland on a cable car and had weekends laying on some beach in Spain, and being paid for doing that too. Even though I don't do that any more, even in the job I just finished, I was pretty much left alone to do what I wanted and used to spend 75% of the time being paid to go on the internet.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 8, 2021 18:49:30 GMT
No, it's not skilled work and neither should it be re-classified as skilled work. I think there is a huge amount of skill needed to drive a lorry/truck. There is a huge responsibility. You need to know exactly what it is you're supposed to be doing, you need to be able to drive and know your vehicle, there are timetables and all kinds of other things to be dealt with. Same with bus driving. At least what I do is often horribly complicated and you need to be thinking all of the time and using your wits and experience. Buses are (usually) just 'one block' and are easy to reverse.... most of the trucks in Finland are 'combination' (2-part) and when I have seen them reversing along tiny sand roads I have lifted my hat in acknowledgement of their nerve and capability. Yes there's skill but for the purposes of a discussion on the economics of leaving the EU (or otherwise) it's unskilled. We can explain: If a Polish person, suitably qualified, applies for a driving job he is as likely to get the job as a similarly qualified British driver. If a Polish design engineer, suitably qualified, applies for a job and there's a similarly qualified British candidate the chances of the Pole being offered the job are vanishingly slim. So all the better paid jobs are kept for the British while the British with lower skills, drivers for example, have to compete equally with applicants from anywhere in Europe. The Pole will be excluded from being a design engineer for a number of reasons. First, he probably doesn't know anyone, nepotism can't secure him the role. Next, he probably went to the wrong school and/ or university. His English accent might not be acceptable, might not give the impression that he's from the correct class. There may be fault found with his English, lack of knowledge of local slang for example, that doesn't affect his ability to do the job. Finally, if all these fail, thinly veiled racism can take over. The so called professions don't want Poles in their midst, Poles are only here to do lower jobs.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 9, 2021 9:07:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jun 9, 2021 9:28:10 GMT
The champagne socialists will be up in arms that the lower skilled (scum) workers who they purport to support are causing the cost of their asparagus to rise by 10 pence.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 9, 2021 9:36:18 GMT
Yes, it's the Jim Rileys of this world who getting so bent out of shape about 15 years of wage stagnation starting to reverse for working-class people. It's not the sort of thing Tony Blair would want to see at all.
|
|