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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2021 12:26:37 GMT
There’s a guy on a seamaster 23 near me, who’s petrol inboard has gone capput. Is there a Diesel engine alternative that would be an easy change?
It’s on an Enfield out drive, I was thinking maybe a two cylinder yammar or similar?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 12:33:42 GMT
According t'web the Seamaster 23 was often fitted with a Bukh 10hp.
ETA I have a notion that the Bukh 20hp twin-cylinder model has the same type of gearbox which may mean its as easy to fit that as the 10 hp (there are usually more 20hp items available than the 10).
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 8, 2021 13:01:05 GMT
There’s a guy on a seamaster 23 near me, who’s petrol inboard has gone capput. Is there a Diesel engine alternative that would be an easy change? It’s on an Enfield out drive, I was thinking maybe a two cylinder yammar or similar? Yes there are lots, . . you can couple any model of any make of engine to the input shaft of an Enfield leg - with a suitable coupling. A good starting point for choosing a replacement engine would be the power and torque curves for the existing one. Idiot ! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 13:43:17 GMT
kris It will almost certainly have a ford watermota in it. There is no direct replacement that will avoid lots of work. The Sea panther is based on the same block architecture but are as old as the hills, as rare as hens teeth and have only one worldwide supplier of bits down in Dartmouth. Perkins 4107/4108 are plentiful still and were a massively popular combination with an Enfield leg. Ford XLD 1.6/1.8 will go on but again need plenty of work to fit. There is then the issue of prop sizing to be factored in. Easiest solution is rebuild the Petrol engine (either Ford 105E or 1600 Cortina based) sell it and get something all ready with a diesel engine in it. If they are still dead set on a conversion from petrol to diesel (which is never ever quick, easy, cheap or straight forward!) give Chertsey marine a ring and ask them about common petrol - diesel conversions. www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/enfield-z-drives/
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2021 15:04:21 GMT
According t'web the Seamaster 23 was often fitted with a Bukh 10hp. ETA I have a notion that the Bukh 20hp twin-cylinder model has the same type of gearbox which may mean its as easy to fit that as the 10 hp (there are usually more 20hp items available than the 10). One of these would be good. |
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2021 15:05:21 GMT
kris It will almost certainly have a ford watermota in it. There is no direct replacement that will avoid lots of work. The Sea panther is based on the same block architecture but are as old as the hills, as rare as hens teeth and have only one worldwide supplier of bits down in Dartmouth. Perkins 4107/4108 are plentiful still and were a massively popular combination with an Enfield leg. Ford XLD 1.6/1.8 will go on but again need plenty of work to fit. There is then the issue of prop sizing to be factored in. Easiest solution is rebuild the Petrol engine (either Ford 105E or 1600 Cortina based) sell it and get something all ready with a diesel engine in it. If they are still dead set on a conversion from petrol to diesel (which is never ever quick, easy, cheap or straight forward!) give Chertsey marine a ring and ask them about common petrol - diesel conversions. www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/enfield-z-drives/ Thought it might be a load of hassle when I saw it was an Enfield leg drive. |
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Post by JohnV on Jun 8, 2021 15:09:13 GMT
The reason I got Shapfell so cheap was because the petrol engine had been changed for a diesel ...... I was able to say "Not very good is it, it can barely beat a snail along the towpath" and get a very cheeky offer accepted.
Nothing wrong with doing it provided it is done right ...... which it often isn't
(and Shapfell has conventional shaft drive and not a leg)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 15:28:24 GMT
There’s a guy on a seamaster 23 near me, who’s petrol inboard has gone capput. Is there a Diesel engine alternative that would be an easy change? It’s on an Enfield out drive, I was thinking maybe a two cylinder yammar or similar? Yes there are lots, . . you can couple any model of any make of engine to the input shaft of an Enfield leg - with a suitable coupling. A good starting point for choosing a replacement engine would be the power and torque curves for the existing one. Idiot ! Another good start would be to find an engine which has been sitting on the back deck of a boat for 3 weeks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 16:35:51 GMT
I would also take exception to the suggestion you can couple any engine to an Enfield leg. This is categorically incorrect because CRT will not let you. In addition to this there will be an input rating for the drive which will limit the size of unit you should sensibly use.
BMC 3 pot diesel comes to mind but I don't think they are very common.
A friend of mine once successfully coupled a two cylinder Lister air cooled ex generator engine (LT2 I think it was, one of the small flat top type) and that worked okay. Very noisy but pushed the boat along and boats going along is the primary objective after all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 17:29:42 GMT
The reason I got Shapfell so cheap was because the petrol engine had been changed for a diesel ...... I was able to say "Not very good is it, it can barely beat a snail along the towpath" and get a very cheeky offer accepted. Nothing wrong with doing it provided it is done right ...... which it often isn't (and Shapfell has conventional shaft drive and not a leg) Yup! Northern Star was effectively a clean sheet instal with no half arsed efforts by well meaning buffoons needing putting right - it was still a lot of effort even with a fully equipped workshop complete with lathe and milling machine overseen by a sympathetic and understanding boss! Legs add a complete different dimension along with increasing the hassle factor way past 11 on the dial. Plenty have been done (for example old Petrol B20 Aq120/130 Volvos to Ford 1.8 diesels - always with the wrong prop and a shite exhaust riser!) but if I’m brutally honest it’s a job I’d swerve no matter what flavour of leg or diesel engine is trying to be united in unholy matrimony |
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Post by JohnV on Jun 8, 2021 17:52:12 GMT
The reason I got Shapfell so cheap was because the petrol engine had been changed for a diesel ...... I was able to say "Not very good is it, it can barely beat a snail along the towpath" and get a very cheeky offer accepted. Nothing wrong with doing it provided it is done right ...... which it often isn't (and Shapfell has conventional shaft drive and not a leg) Yup! Northern Star was effectively a clean sheet instal with no half arsed efforts by well meaning buffoons needing putting right - it was still a lot of effort even with a fully equipped workshop complete with lathe and milling machine overseen by a sympathetic and understanding boss! Legs add a complete different dimension along with increasing the hassle factor way past 11 on the dial. Plenty have been done (for example old Petrol B20 Aq120/130 Volvos to Ford 1.8 diesels - always with the wrong prop and a shite exhaust riser!) but if I’m brutally honest it’s a job I’d swerve no matter what flavour of leg or diesel engine is trying to be united in unholy matrimony Of course on Shapfell it wasn't just diameter and pitch of the prop that was wrong but of course the engines rotated in opposite directions ...... and the evil bastards that did it had simply switched the cable round on the morse control so the poor bloody gearbox was going astern all the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 19:03:25 GMT
Yup! Northern Star was effectively a clean sheet instal with no half arsed efforts by well meaning buffoons needing putting right - it was still a lot of effort even with a fully equipped workshop complete with lathe and milling machine overseen by a sympathetic and understanding boss! Legs add a complete different dimension along with increasing the hassle factor way past 11 on the dial. Plenty have been done (for example old Petrol B20 Aq120/130 Volvos to Ford 1.8 diesels - always with the wrong prop and a shite exhaust riser!) but if I’m brutally honest it’s a job I’d swerve no matter what flavour of leg or diesel engine is trying to be united in unholy matrimony Of course on Shapfell it wasn't just diameter and pitch of the prop that was wrong but of course the engines rotated in opposite directions ...... and the evil bastards that did it had simply switched the cable round on the morse control so the poor bloody gearbox was going astern all the time. The little Hurth 50 can be run in position B (nominally astern) continuously but needs de rating to suite, it’s not a nice way of getting around the issue of an incorrect prop/engine combination though! We hit the Jackpot with the D722, Hurth 50 box and Stuart Turner Prop, it goes really well for what it is. Correct rotation so we didn’t need to fall back on position B thankfully. My brother asked me how we’d do the prop calculations prior to getting her going with the Kubota installed. That’s easy I said - fire her up and see how she goes and we will take it from there - 7 years on and the Stuart prop is still there 👍🍻👌🙏 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 20:41:09 GMT
If they are still dead set on a conversion from petrol to diesel (which is never ever quick, easy, cheap or straight forward!) give Chertsey marine a ring and ask them about common petrol - diesel conversions. www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/enfield-z-drives/CMM is a good little yard. I've not been past this year yet as have been too lazy but it was still there last year! Funny story with two brothers one of whom wants to sell up and retire. It would make good money for redevelopment as it is surrounded by residential already. Nice if it does remain a boatyard and yes they do know a lot about the outdrives. |
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