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Jul 20, 2021 9:24:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 9:24:43 GMT
I agree with almost all of that, but not sure about this statement, not the male bit but the football/rugby supporting bit, have you researched this? 'Nearly all people carrying out these attacks are male and football or rugger supporters' It seems pretty obvious to me but I can’t prove it. It”s not the sort of statistic that is collected, unfortunately. But working class males seem to predominantly be interested in football and it is these same group who feel empowered to beat up strangers who they don’t like the look of. It would surely be surprising if there wasn’t a big overlap. So we can say its not factually correct then. |
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Jul 20, 2021 9:30:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 9:30:57 GMT
I'm kind of sorry I started the thread.
I wasn't being evangelical... I'd just watched an interview with Marlie and found it inspiring ... she seems a very grounded woman and one of the World's best players.
I had previously listened to Craig Maxwell-Keys interview and been impressed with his honesty and openess, and simple ordinariness.
I started the thread to express this in the passing thought that others may feel curious enough to seek out the interviews and be equally inspired.
Instead I seem to have promoted the opportunity for 'Carry On' style gay 'banter' ... not my intention but perhaps I should have known better.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 20, 2021 9:40:34 GMT
I'm kind of sorry I started the thread. I wasn't being evangelical... I'd just watched an interview with Marlie and found it inspiring ... she seems a very grounded woman and one of the World's best players. I had previously listened to Craig Maxwell-Keys interview and been impressed with his honesty and openess, and simple ordinariness. I started the thread to express this in the passing thought that others may feel curious enough to seek out the interviews and be equally inspired. Instead I seem to have promoted the opportunity for 'Carry On' style gay 'banter' ... not my intention but perhaps I should have known better. Rog Don’t worry on my account, there is nothing wrong with a bit of ‘Carry On” style gay banter. |
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Jul 20, 2021 9:42:09 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 20, 2021 9:42:09 GMT
It seems pretty obvious to me but I can’t prove it. It”s not the sort of statistic that is collected, unfortunately. But working class males seem to predominantly be interested in football and it is these same group who feel empowered to beat up strangers who they don’t like the look of. It would surely be surprising if there wasn’t a big overlap. So we can say its not factually correct then. We can say that neither of us know whether it is factually correct or not. I presented my evidence supporting my premise and you can choose to accept it or to offer counter evidence. |
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Jul 20, 2021 9:42:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 9:42:55 GMT
Wasn't worried on anyone else's account (but thanks).
It's just I achieved the exact opposite of what I intended by the o.p.
Rog
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Jul 20, 2021 9:45:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 9:45:06 GMT
So we can say its not factually correct then. We can say that neither of us know whether it is factually correct or not. I presented my evidence supporting my premise and you can choose to accept it or to offer counter evidence. I refuse to accept it based on my believe its not correct. Easy that. |
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 20, 2021 9:47:40 GMT
I suspect they feel the need to keep banging on about it because unfortunately other people make their preference their business, and often not in nice ways, with their aim being to be allowed to live and let live, something which is not the case at the moment in some circumstances. Here are some thoughts: 1) Gay people are under-represented in mainstream sports like football and rugger. Why is that? Is it because the limp wristed prancing poofs are no good with that sort of ball and don’t make the team? Or is it because they did make the team but due to institutional homophobia in footie and rugger (more the former I suspect) they feel they have to hide it and lead a false life? The latter I suspect I'm not sure. Gay men seem to be over represented in the arts. Is this because they feel comfortable in the arts, or is there a tendency to have better artistic ability than would be typical of a man? If it's the latter, would it not be reasonable to extend this thinking to other aspects of life, including sport perhaps? I'm talking tendency, not broad brush stereotype. Tendency could lead to the imbalances we see in these two disciplines. Well I’m a gay man with absolutely zero artistic ability so clearly it’s not a given. Whether there is a “tendency” as you put it, who knows - again, such statistics aren’t collected. But one thing is for sure, there have been a number of gay sportsmen and women who have felt it necessary to hide their sexuality, only eventually “coming out” when they feel secure and/or driven enough to do so. And that is really what the OP was about |
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Jul 20, 2021 9:48:56 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 20, 2021 9:48:56 GMT
We can say that neither of us know whether it is factually correct or not. I presented my evidence supporting my premise and you can choose to accept it or to offer counter evidence. I refuse to accept it based on my believe its not correct. Easy that. Yes quite easy. But unconvincing. |
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Jul 20, 2021 9:56:20 GMT
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 20, 2021 9:56:20 GMT
I'm kind of sorry I started the thread. I wasn't being evangelical... I'd just watched an interview with Marlie and found it inspiring ... she seems a very grounded woman and one of the World's best players. I had previously listened to Craig Maxwell-Keys interview and been impressed with his honesty and openess, and simple ordinariness. I started the thread to express this in the passing thought that others may feel curious enough to seek out the interviews and be equally inspired. Instead I seem to have promoted the opportunity for 'Carry On' style gay 'banter' ... not my intention but perhaps I should have known better. Rog Apology accepted. |
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Jul 20, 2021 10:10:16 GMT
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 20, 2021 10:10:16 GMT
I'm not sure. Gay men seem to be over represented in the arts. Is this because they feel comfortable in the arts, or is there a tendency to have better artistic ability than would be typical of a man? If it's the latter, would it not be reasonable to extend this thinking to other aspects of life, including sport perhaps? I'm talking tendency, not broad brush stereotype. Tendency could lead to the imbalances we see in these two disciplines. Well I’m a gay man with absolutely zero artistic ability so clearly it’s not a given. Whether there is a “tendency” as you put it, who knows - again, such statistics aren’t collected. But one thing is for sure, there have been a number of gay sportsmen and women who have felt it necessary to hide their sexuality, only eventually “coming out” when they feel secure and/or driven enough to do so. And that is really what the OP was about I'm sure there are numbers of gay footballers, rugby players etc. etc. who feel they need to hide their sexuality. I guess the question is, if there's to be action, what action is proportionate given that the numbers involved are tiny, when compared to the general population? It might also be taken into account, when considering proportion, that those suffering from this are generally privileged in other ways. In other words, there are plenty of other groups who are suffering more under the status quo. Given this, it probably wouldn't be proportionate to obsess about this particular issue, devote a large percentage of the national broadcaster's time to the issue etc. etc. |
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Jul 20, 2021 10:50:53 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 20, 2021 10:50:53 GMT
Well I’m a gay man with absolutely zero artistic ability so clearly it’s not a given. Whether there is a “tendency” as you put it, who knows - again, such statistics aren’t collected. But one thing is for sure, there have been a number of gay sportsmen and women who have felt it necessary to hide their sexuality, only eventually “coming out” when they feel secure and/or driven enough to do so. And that is really what the OP was about I'm sure there are numbers of gay footballers, rugby players etc. etc. who feel they need to hide their sexuality. I guess the question is, if there's to be action, what action is proportionate given that the numbers involved are tiny, when compared to the general population? It might also be taken into account, when considering proportion, that those suffering from this are generally privileged in other ways. In other words, there are plenty of other groups who are suffering more under the status quo. Given this, it probably wouldn't be proportionate to obsess about this particular issue, devote a large percentage of the national broadcaster's time to the issue etc. etc. I don’t think the national broadcaster does devote much time to it. They certainly are devoting far more time to racial (black) issues at the moment. The other thing to bear in mind is that it isn’t a homogenous problem - if you are one of the London Liberal Elite you probably don’t really think there’s a problem. But if you live in a council estate in some grotty part of the Manchester conurbation then you probably do. |
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Jul 20, 2021 10:54:21 GMT
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 20, 2021 10:54:21 GMT
I'm sure there are numbers of gay footballers, rugby players etc. etc. who feel they need to hide their sexuality. I guess the question is, if there's to be action, what action is proportionate given that the numbers involved are tiny, when compared to the general population? It might also be taken into account, when considering proportion, that those suffering from this are generally privileged in other ways. In other words, there are plenty of other groups who are suffering more under the status quo. Given this, it probably wouldn't be proportionate to obsess about this particular issue, devote a large percentage of the national broadcaster's time to the issue etc. etc. I don’t think the national broadcaster does devote much time to it. They certainly are devoting far more time to racial (black) issues at the moment. The other thing to bear in mind is that it isn’t a homogenous problem - if you are one of the London Liberal Elite you probably don’t really think there’s a problem. But if you live in a council estate in some grotty part of the Manchester conurbation then you probably do. Fair enough. It is important that things are kept in proportion though. Otherwise many people will exercise what is their right, and simply switch off. If enough folk switch off, the messenger will cease to exist. |
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Jul 20, 2021 11:51:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 11:51:17 GMT
I'm kind of sorry I started the thread. I wasn't being evangelical... Rog *puts hand over mouth and coughs discreetly* 😉 |
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 20, 2021 12:05:25 GMT
In my book, there's only one thing worse than a poof, and that's a ginger poof.  Says the man on a yellow girlie moped  - admit it... you are just obsessed with me... it's understandable - I've declined worse offers I suppose over the years - alas, I've always ben a 'one man man' and you keep missing the window of opportunity... which is understandably only ever a small one due to my alure. tell you what, we could always "sext" - pm me your number and I'll send you some photos later  Correction. In my book, there's only one thing worse than a poof, and that's a ginger poof on a yellow girlie moped.   |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 12:09:00 GMT
Or a ginger poof on a yellow girlie moped aboard a green narrowboat named after a female potato.
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- admit it... you are just obsessed with me... it's understandable - I've declined worse offers I suppose over the years - alas, I've always ben a 'one man man' and you keep missing the window of opportunity... which is understandably only ever a small one due to my alure.
