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Post by kris on Apr 14, 2016 13:40:10 GMT
You do here the same things over and over again. They are only after cheap accommodation. They are not paying their way they are getting something for free. Its yet to be proven that outside of a few areas there is a big problem with overstaying boats.
Regards kris
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 13:56:02 GMT
Aaaahhh!!!! we are making progress! At least there is acceptance that there is a problem of boats failing to comply in some areas.
I have always accepted that the majority of CCers do what it says on the packet (as I did when I was able to do so) It is nice to see an acceptance that there are a minority that push the limits for their benefit (I don't like to see it but accept that it will always happen) The real problem is the very small number who truly take the piss and make no attempt to comply (I agree many might because of ignorance, but this is no excuse, they should have checked what they were required to do beforehand)I have no sympathy for people who cry foul when they are at fault.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 14:15:01 GMT
Some of the people that moor for months and months and never pay for moorings because "they are constant cruisers sic" They then scream when they get moved on or refused licenses I can name boats what do it but thats not fair on an open forum Nearlly all of them pay their boat licence though. Many of them pay, or have paid through their taxes too. Would you pay for a mooring which you would never use? If boaters don't want the security and laid on facilities, which say a marina offers, then why should they be expected to pay more just to keep jealous people off their backs? Also another reason it would be unfair to name any of these boaters on social media, is because you'd need to talk them first to get the facts and their story. Something I suspect rarely happens.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 15:17:21 GMT
I hate people that dont when I pay and we all need to pay to keep the system running Ah the politics of envy,who is not paying what Peter?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 15:22:09 GMT
John we are all with Loafer regarding the need to move.That is not in question. I like Loafer have had no trouble from CRT and no axe to grind,but let me sum it up like this, We have a legal requirement to move every fourteen days with the distance unspecified, CRT meanwhile publish a GUIDELINE not a change to the law,but a guideline which asks for a 20 mile minimum within a license period. Some comply,some already easily exceed that,some bury their head in the sand and say " the law is the law I move every fourteen days and you can't tell me how far because the law doesn't allow you". These people are doing nothing illegal John,they are complying with the law. Its in these last sentences where we possibly loose Loafer and thats the realisation that CRT may be engaged in an Agenda to clear the canals of continuous cruisers and the fear is that it is 20 miles of movement this year and perhaps 50 miles next year.Perhaps 50 miles isn't an issue to some, "Get a mooring "I hear you say,well its an issue to the vulnerable,the sick and infirm,the employed on low wages who would like a mooring but in the South East especially there are few affordable to be had.Some law abiding boaters therefore not unreasonably conclude they are under threat.Please tell me John or Loafer or indeed anyone ,what part of the above you disagree with or perhaps don't fully understand or alternately tell me where I have it wrong.
I disagree. 20 miles ? 50 miles Heck, 100 miles a year should not be a problem to a continuous cruiser, that's less than 10 miles a month !!!!!
anybody who is not capable of doing that is not a continuous cruiser, and is just using the term to get cheap accommodation.
so all a CCer has to do to comply with a 100 mile a year is move a niggardly 5 miles every 14 days.
where the heck is the hardship in that ?
If you say " what about winter and being in one place for three months......Wow !!! you have to move 7 miles every 14 days......big deal
I have no sympathy unless there are very special circumstances
If you are unable to comply with the tiny distance they are talking about at the moment, in my opinion you are cheating the system.
No hardship John exept legally they don't have to move any distance. You talk of cheap accommodation,so what John? Its about time some affordable moorings were made available. I
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 15:25:43 GMT
Aaaahhh!!!! we are making progress! At least there is acceptance that there is a problem of boats failing to comply in some areas. I have always accepted that the majority of CCers do what it says on the packet (as I did when I was able to do so) It is nice to see an acceptance that there are a minority that push the limits for their benefit (I don't like to see it but accept that it will always happen) The real problem is the very small number who truly take the piss and make no attempt to comply (I agree many might because of ignorance, but this is no excuse, they should have checked what they were required to do beforehand)I have no sympathy for people who cry foul when they are at fault. I am glad you admit its a really small number.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 16:08:10 GMT
compared with the number of boaters it is a small number and I have never said or implied it was anything else. most people will play by the rules some will push the boundaries a few will ignore them that has always been the way with everything
eta and why do you consider that CRT should become a social housing society and take over the responsibilities of government
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 16:21:21 GMT
...and why do you consider that CRT should become a social housing society and take over the responsibilities of government I don't think anyone has suggested this but I do think we all have a responsibility to care.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 16:39:29 GMT
compared with the number of boaters it is a small number and I have never said or implied it was anything else. most people will play by the rules some will push the boundaries a few will ignore them that has always been the way with everything
eta and why do you consider that CRT should become a social housing society and take over the responsibilities of government I dont understand your point John? originally it was canal carrying,then it became leisure and now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing. Some would call this a disgrace and others merely evolution whatever you call it these are the facts. I would contend that its the faiure of Government that has caused the issue in the first place.Whats your thought on that? For 35 years I have heard the same old rubbish that I have just heard from you the crux of which is Dirty something for nothing continuous moorers. Even when the facts fail to back up your argument,you keep on coming with the same narrative.I outlined the law as it stands and the CRT guidance of 20 miles in a License Period,I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings all of which I suspect you knew already,I invited your comment on that and I genuinely feel you let us both down with your reply.You immediately took issue with the 20miles,these are CRT guidelines not mine,if they are happy why aren't you? The Licensing system is not fit for purpose as it traps people who want a mooring but can't afford one,want to cc but can't as they have a job and maybe kids at school.There is no Social Housing especially in the South so what do you suggest John? I am trying to move the debate away from entrenched viewpoints. John,your an old bloke I guess living on a pension in a marina or on a mooring ? you aren't taking anything for nothing,but some of these youngsters will be seventy plus before they reach a state pension,we are in the midst of the greatest depression and mass migration of people the world has ever seen so if a narrowboat has become social housing,what of it John?
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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2016 16:55:06 GMT
Same old same old blah blah moorings to expensive blah blah its a visitor mooring and I am visiting ........for 4 months If the moorings are to expensive there they can move up here where its cheaper £1000 per year 5 foot or Waddingtons where its cheaper still. CRT is not a homing organisation its a canal trust what happens if people really piss them off and they change the rules no residential moorings and no constant cruisers where would you be then? homeless because some people cant obey the simplest of rules and distances and people like you lot defend that!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:12:49 GMT
Same old same old blah blah moorings to expensive blah blah its a visitor mooring and I am visiting ........for 4 months If the moorings are to expensive there they can move up here where its cheaper £1000 per year 5 foot or Waddingtons where its cheaper still. CRT is not a homing organisation its a canal trust what happens if people really piss them off and they change the rules no residential moorings and no constant cruisers where would you be then? homeless because some people cant obey the simplest of rules and distances and people like you lot defend that!! I don't know if you know anything about boating? from the above evidently very little. Who said CRT is a " homing organisation " as you quaintly put it ? did you read my post? You are obviously fearful of CRT changing the rules ?well I have good news for you,they can't. You suggest that people should move up to where you are,I suggest you get yourself a pencil and notebook from WH SMITH and come down to Milton Keynes and I shall attempt to educate you because I feel your ignorance could be prejudicial to you enjoying our splendid forum.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:16:46 GMT
Same old same old blah blah moorings to expensive blah blah its a visitor mooring and I am visiting ........for 4 months If the moorings are to expensive there they can move up here where its cheaper £1000 per year 5 foot or Waddingtons where its cheaper still. CRT is not a homing organisation its a canal trust what happens if people really piss them off and they change the rules no residential moorings and no constant cruisers where would you be then? homeless because some people cant obey the simplest of rules and distances and people like you lot defend that!! I reckon your just full of shit. I've seen crap similar to what you spout at IWA meetings. Are you a member of the provisional?
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 14, 2016 17:48:57 GMT
We were paying 34 Pounds/week in Oxfordshire for a mooring - we're paying 17/week in West Yorkshire. North-South Divide? Divide by two!!
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 18:02:50 GMT
compared with the number of boaters it is a small number and I have never said or implied it was anything else. most people will play by the rules some will push the boundaries a few will ignore them that has always been the way with everything
eta and why do you consider that CRT should become a social housing society and take over the responsibilities of government I dont understand your point John? originally it was canal carrying,then it became leisure and now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing.Some would call this a disgrace and others merely evolution whatever you call it these are the facts. I would contend that its the faiure of Government that has caused the issue in the first place.Whats your thought on that? For 35 years I have heard the same old rubbish that I have just heard from you the crux of which is Dirty something for nothing continuous moorers. Even when the facts fail to back up your argument,you keep on coming with the same narrative.I outlined the law as it stands and the CRT guidance of 20 miles in a License Period ,I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings all of which I suspect you knew already,I invited your comment on that and I genuinely feel you let us both down with your reply.You immediately took issue with the 20miles,these are CRT guidelines not mine,if they are happy why aren't you? The Licensing system is not fit for purpose as it traps people who want a mooring but can't afford one,want to cc but can't as they have a job and maybe kids at school.There is no Social Housing especially in the South so what do you suggest John? I am trying to move the debate away from entrenched viewpoints. John,your an old bloke I guess living on a pension in a marina or on a mooring ? you aren't taking anything for nothing,but some of these youngsters will be seventy plus before they reach a state pension,we are in the midst of the greatest depression and mass migration of people the world has ever seen so if a narrowboat has become social housing,what of it John?
Ok lets take the two underlined points as a starter
"now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing"
The fact that people are using canal system as something for which it has not designed and not funded for gives them no right whatsoever to expect the system to accommodate them They were not using the system in the way specified and funded and they knew that at the time. If it blew up in their face it was there own fault
"I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings"
Again Caveat Emptor You buy your licence to use the system that exists, if you failed to research sufficiently to find out that you would not be able to do just as you wish then, tough. You cannot expect the system to be changed to suit you.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2016 18:07:39 GMT
Exactly Ross same old bleeding hearts I pay 1K per year for my 57 foot mooring and have been boating for 11 years so clearly I know nothing about boating at all. I think some of the problem is that I have worked all my life like you to achieve things whereas some people think that the world owes them a living which it doesnt
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