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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:13:57 GMT
I dont understand your point John? originally it was canal carrying,then it became leisure and now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing.Some would call this a disgrace and others merely evolution whatever you call it these are the facts. I would contend that its the faiure of Government that has caused the issue in the first place.Whats your thought on that? For 35 years I have heard the same old rubbish that I have just heard from you the crux of which is Dirty something for nothing continuous moorers. Even when the facts fail to back up your argument,you keep on coming with the same narrative.I outlined the law as it stands and the CRT guidance of 20 miles in a License Period ,I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings all of which I suspect you knew already,I invited your comment on that and I genuinely feel you let us both down with your reply.You immediately took issue with the 20miles,these are CRT guidelines not mine,if they are happy why aren't you? The Licensing system is not fit for purpose as it traps people who want a mooring but can't afford one,want to cc but can't as they have a job and maybe kids at school.There is no Social Housing especially in the South so what do you suggest John? I am trying to move the debate away from entrenched viewpoints. John,your an old bloke I guess living on a pension in a marina or on a mooring ? you aren't taking anything for nothing,but some of these youngsters will be seventy plus before they reach a state pension,we are in the midst of the greatest depression and mass migration of people the world has ever seen so if a narrowboat has become social housing,what of it John?
Ok lets take the two underlined points as a starter
"now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing"
The fact that people are using canal system as something for which it has not designed and not funded for gives them no right whatsoever to expect the system to accommodate them They were not using the system in the way specified and funded and they knew that at the time. If it blew up in their face it was there own fault
"I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings"
Again Caveat Emptor You buy your licence to use the system that exists, if you failed to research sufficiently to find out that you would not be able to do just as you wish then, tough. You cannot expect the system to be changed to suit you.
I think you need to understand a few things that are probably outside of your little box. People are homeless, skint, on low incomes and in some cases relying on food banks. They cut the cloth to their needs. I don't begrudge them that. If the only roof offering protection is a boat on a canal, I don't begrudge them that. The canals and the usage of them is changing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:20:56 GMT
Exactly Ross same old bleeding hearts I pay 1K per year for my 57 foot mooring and have been boating for 11 years so clearly I know nothing about boating at all. I think some of the problem is that I have worked all my life like you to achieve things whereas some people think that the world owes them a living which it doesnt There we go. Feel better now? Your still spouting rubbish. Where or who are these people that feel the world owes them something? You just don't like people that are not from the same mould as yourself. Personally, I like the variety of people I meet. I usually find those with little are much more human than the ones who come from a mould.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 18:27:06 GMT
Ok lets take the two underlined points as a starter
"now for large sections of boaters its Social Housing"
The fact that people are using canal system as something for which it has not designed and not funded for gives them no right whatsoever to expect the system to accommodate them They were not using the system in the way specified and funded and they knew that at the time. If it blew up in their face it was there own fault
"I spoke of the lack of affordable moorings"
Again Caveat Emptor You buy your licence to use the system that exists, if you failed to research sufficiently to find out that you would not be able to do just as you wish then, tough. You cannot expect the system to be changed to suit you.
I think you need to understand a few things that are probably outside of your little box. People are homeless, skint, on low incomes and in some cases relying on food banks. They cut the cloth to their needs. I don't begrudge them that. If the only roof offering protection is a boat on a canal, I don't begrudge them that. The canals and the usage of them is changing.
What has that got to do with the canal system changing for their benefit? You can talk the social conscience talk as much as you like but you still don't say why CRT should change it's system to accommodate them......It's not in their remit !!! You might as well expect the National Trust to allow their properties to be occupied by the homeless instead of rented out to holiday makers You need to look outside your little box at the real world
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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
Exactly Ross same old bleeding hearts I pay 1K per year for my 57 foot mooring and have been boating for 11 years so clearly I know nothing about boating at all. I think some of the problem is that I have worked all my life like you to achieve things whereas some people think that the world owes them a living which it doesnt There we go. Feel better now? Your still spouting rubbish. Where or who are these people that feel the world owes them something? You just don't like people that are not from the same mould as yourself. Personally, I like the variety of people I meet. I usually find those with little are much more human than the ones who come from a mould. I cant be bothered go to your meeting spout crap and dont be surprised when nobody but the people complaining take any notice of you at all. You can all slap yourself on the back and think you have made a difference, wake up smell the coffee people are more bothered about where all the waste from these London boats is going than any argument they might have about being allowed to squat on the canals for free!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:32:07 GMT
I think you need to understand a few things that are probably outside of your little box. People are homeless, skint, on low incomes and in some cases relying on food banks. They cut the cloth to their needs. I don't begrudge them that. If the only roof offering protection is a boat on a canal, I don't begrudge them that. The canals and the usage of them is changing.
What has that got to do with the canal system changing for their benefit? You can talk the social conscience talk as much as you like but you still don't say why CRT should change it's system to accommodate them......It's not in their remit !!! You might as well expect the National Trust to allow their properties to be occupied by the homeless instead of rented out to holiday makers You need to look outside your little box at the real world
Good idea with the national trust opening up some property for the homeless. Any roof is better than none. Perhaps you could suggest it at your next conservative club meeting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:32:44 GMT
I don't get your point regarding design John,what design modification and additional funding is required for a compliant boater who uses his boat for his home ? There isn't any. As regards affordable moorings,I simply say some should be created.The bidding system now allows moorings to go to the highest bidder, is that fair? a man from Surrey buys a boat bids a mooring up to extortionate levels then uses it as a holiday cottage,market forces some will say, we see the same in London Property prices,it doesn't make it right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:36:44 GMT
There we go. Feel better now? Your still spouting rubbish. Where or who are these people that feel the world owes them something? You just don't like people that are not from the same mould as yourself. Personally, I like the variety of people I meet. I usually find those with little are much more human than the ones who come from a mould. I cant be bothered go to your meeting spout crap and dont be surprised when nobody but the people complaining take any notice of you at all. You can all slap yourself on the back and think you have made a difference, wake up smell the coffee people are more bothered about where all the waste from these London boats is going than any argument they might have about being allowed to squat on the canals for free! I fear the bitter taste of your particular brand of coffee choice would not suit my palate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:39:41 GMT
There we go. Feel better now? Your still spouting rubbish. Where or who are these people that feel the world owes them something? You just don't like people that are not from the same mould as yourself. Personally, I like the variety of people I meet. I usually find those with little are much more human than the ones who come from a mould. I cant be bothered go to your meeting spout crap and dont be surprised when nobody but the people complaining take any notice of you at all. You can all slap yourself on the back and think you have made a difference, wake up smell the coffee people are more bothered about where all the waste from these London boats is going than any argument they might have about being allowed to squat on the canals for free! Peter.....................go get that notebook and pencil ha ha ha
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 14, 2016 18:47:03 GMT
For the record Ross has been reading these comments but declines to comment as he sees both sides. If I have anything to say at this point it'd be that I think it's daft to have the canals filled in entirely with floating homes - we'll never get any actual 'cruising' done as they'll all be shouting "Slow Down!" and waving their fists at boats attempting to pass. What if we were all to park our cars on the motorways and sleep in them, so that no-one could get past - or just the middle lane open? Secondly - there should be proper affordable accommodation of decent standard for everyone in this country. Government employees - representatives of the people - should be given stern orders to get things in order NOW and NOT TOMORROW. If I were in charge (see discussion other thread!) one of the first things I'd do is to make sure this lack of accommodation nonsense gets a good kick in the goolies once and for all. EVERYONE has their own home with clean water and cheap electricity in a civilised country. Then we can squabble about the other stuff. Anyway, I do firmly believe Britain IS overpopulated. Why is this? (edit: I mean, why are there so many people in the UK, not why do I firmly believe it!)
If I were in charge I would oversee the re-opening of closed canals and the construction of new canals, and I would insist that canals carry freight that is suited to them - it's energy efficient and economically sound if supervised properly. I would also open many closed railways - such a shame that so much effort went into the making of them, yet there they still stand, neglected, redundant.
Any fool can close down industries and kick the workers down to the Dole Office - it's the clever bloke who can turn something inefficient into a shining beacon of enterprise.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:50:35 GMT
I think you need to understand a few things that are probably outside of your little box. People are homeless, skint, on low incomes and in some cases relying on food banks. They cut the cloth to their needs. I don't begrudge them that. If the only roof offering protection is a boat on a canal, I don't begrudge them that. The canals and the usage of them is changing.
What has that got to do with the canal system changing for their benefit? You can talk the social conscience talk as much as you like but you still don't say why CRT should change it's system to accommodate them......It's not in their remit !!! You might as well expect the National Trust to allow their properties to be occupied by the homeless instead of rented out to holiday makers You need to look outside your little box at the real world
No one is asking CRT to change their system John because it doesn't matter,Social Housing on the canals is here and here for the foreseeable future.Wouldnt it be great if this change was better managed rather than ignored.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 14, 2016 18:51:39 GMT
"we see the same in London Property prices"
A lot of Arabs are buying buildings in London. So you'd have to beat them at their own game. But that means beheading an awful lot of the opposition!
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 18:52:16 GMT
I don't get your point regarding design John,what design modification and additional funding is required for a compliant boater who uses his boat for his home ? There isn't any. As regards affordable moorings,I simply say some should be created.The bidding system now allows moorings to go to the highest bidder, is that fair? a man from Surrey buys a boat bids a mooring up to extortionate levels then uses it as a holiday cottage,market forces some will say, we see the same in London Property prices,it doesn't make it right. The bidding system is a different matter which you may find we would be fairly close in our thoughts, but that is a different matter.
Back to the previous point. The infra structure of the canals i.e. water points, sanitary station points, suitable moorings etc. is designed for a fairly low level of occupied boats on the system in any one given area. It is surely common sense that if you wish to go and live in an area that you research if the facilities exist that you need. To just turn up and expect the system to accommodate you is just downright stupid. To do so in a crowded area and expect to be able to CC (sic) to avoid the cost of a mooring is doubly stupid
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:52:56 GMT
For the record Ross has been reading these comments but declines to comment as he sees both sides. If I have anything to say at this point it'd be that I think it's daft to have the canals filled in entirely with floating homes - we'll never get any actual 'cruising' done as they'll all be shouting "Slow Down!" and waving their fists at boats attempting to pass. What if we were all to park our cars on the motorways and sleep in them, so that no-one could get past - or just the middle lane open? Secondly - there should be proper affordable accommodation of decent standard for everyone in this country. Government employees - representatives of the people - should be given stern orders to get things in order NOW and NOT TOMORROW. If I were in charge (see discussion other thread!) one of the first things I'd do is to make sure this lack of accommodation nonsense gets a good kick in the goolies once and for all. EVERYONE has their own home with clean water and cheap electricity in a civilised country. Then we can squabble about the other stuff. Anyway, I do firmly believe Britain IS overpopulated. Why is this? If I were in charge I would oversee the re-opening of closed canals and the construction of new canals, and I would insist that canals carry freight that is suited to them - it's energy efficient and economically sound if supervised properly. I would also open many closed railways - such a shame that so much effort went into the making of them, yet there they still stand, neglected, redundant. Any fool can close down industries and kick the workers down to the Dole Office - it's the clever bloke who can turn something inefficient into a shining beacon of enterprise. Ross ? who's he ?
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 14, 2016 18:54:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 19:07:11 GMT
I don't get your point regarding design John,what design modification and additional funding is required for a compliant boater who uses his boat for his home ? There isn't any. As regards affordable moorings,I simply say some should be created.The bidding system now allows moorings to go to the highest bidder, is that fair? a man from Surrey buys a boat bids a mooring up to extortionate levels then uses it as a holiday cottage,market forces some will say, we see the same in London Property prices,it doesn't make it right. The bidding system is a different matter which you may find we would be fairly close in our thoughts, but that is a different matter.
Back to the previous point. The infra structure of the canals i.e. water points, sanitary station points, suitable moorings etc. is designed for a fairly low level of occupied boats on the system in any one given area. It is surely common sense that if you wish to go and live in an area that you research if the facilities exist that you need. To just turn up and expect the system to accommodate you is just downright stupid. To do so in a crowded area and expect to be able to CC (sic) to avoid the cost of a mooring is doubly stupid
Come on John who says its designed for a low level of occupation ? some water taps and sanitation points never see a user from one day to the next.Who is turning up and expecting to be accommodated at additional cost ? where is this intolerable burden on the system ? There is no problem with cc you said earlier its a very small number that take the piss
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