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Post by kris on Aug 7, 2021 21:05:51 GMT
I see gin has been consumed.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 7, 2021 21:22:32 GMT
I see gin has been consumed. Absolutely no gin has been consumed tonight. Wine, on the other hand…
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Post by kris on Aug 7, 2021 21:25:15 GMT
That’s all wine then.
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Post by quaysider on Aug 8, 2021 6:05:11 GMT
I must admit, I share Johnv 's views on this - I'm all for live and let live but when you join a club... be it golf, squash, gym etc. you agree in principle to abide by it's rules/operating procedures. It's simple - if you don't want to move your boat around, get a mooring. There are plenty around and most will turn a blind eye in regards a full time live-aboard being on a 'leisure' mooring - even if they don't, it' not hard to go off your mooring for a couple of nights a month so the moorings manager can tick a box.
Trouble is - the canal network does appear to be developing (for want of a better word) a class system... and by that I don't mean folks that think "I'm better than you cause I have more money" folks... more along the lines of there are some/many whom want to being in the club so to speak, but not play by the rules (be them open to misinterpretation or otherwise). OK there are some people that look down their noses at scabby looking boats (and the folks on them) but the majority still interact on a level playing field when out boating... it's only when they bunch up on some moorings somewhere full of over stayers things can get a bit tetchy.
I have to admit, when I've been up and down a stretch (take the last month or so going from Buggy down the peak forest, then the mac and t&m down to stone, a couple of times each way, the 'same boats' are in the 'same places' - getting in the way - CRT don't help either by dumping boats on lock landings cause it's easier than banging a pin in PROPERLY.
Obviously cause I travel around an awful lot, I come across more and more piss-takers... conveniently broken down on lock landings /swing bridge landings (cause they are too lazy to bow haul 40 yards and bang a pin in) or right on water points... more and more grp's are cluttering up the aforementioned bollards just abandoned for weeks/months on end... eventually ending up vandalized when the local scrotes cotton on that no one is visiting the boat.
Even up the Caldon on the 24 hour moorings there is boat after boat that don't move - we only raced up and down over 3 days but the same ones in the same places on the 24 hour moorings hadn't budged.
Interestingly (if a little right wing even for me) I got talking to a woman yesterday at Etruria, and she suggested crt dig out some new marinas and invite all the continuous moorings to live in there... kind of like a big boating council estate... thus clearing the canal for 'proper' ccers. At fist I thought she was joking but on continuing the conversation, she WAS serious... having given it a bit of thought it's not actually a bad idea.... after all, local authorities set up gypsy/traveler sites at their expense so why not do the same for boaters without a home mooring?
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Post by Allan on Aug 8, 2021 7:42:14 GMT
So what legislation was altered to allow no home mooring? Which part of which Act was repealed? Alternatively, what byelaw was repealed or altered? You misunderstand me, my fault I guess for not explaining properly. As I understand it from Nigel, the legislation in its original draft required all boats to have a home mooring. As it went through Parliament representations were made on behalf of those who wanted to explore the whole system over years, so the draft legislation was altered to allow for this. Apparently this is all in Hansard if one cares to have a spare few weeks to find it! Pre-1995 act, was there a requirement to have a home mooring or not? Can’t remember. Struggling a bit I think, Nick ... Why would BW draft a bill that required all boats to have a home mooring if a legal requirement to have a home mooring already existed?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 8:00:23 GMT
You misunderstand me, my fault I guess for not explaining properly. As I understand it from Nigel, the legislation in its original draft required all boats to have a home mooring. As it went through Parliament representations were made on behalf of those who wanted to explore the whole system over years, so the draft legislation was altered to allow for this. Apparently this is all in Hansard if one cares to have a spare few weeks to find it! Pre-1995 act, was there a requirement to have a home mooring or not? Can’t remember. Struggling a bit I think, Nick ... Why would BW draft a bill that required all boats to have a home mooring if a legal requirement to have a home mooring already existed? There was no requirement in law to have a home mooring pre 1995 however BW did ask awkward questions if you didn't have one. As Nick said it was a requirement in the original draft of the 1995 bill but was removed. Stop trying to score points it makes you look daft 😱
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Post by Jim on Aug 8, 2021 8:26:53 GMT
"(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances." And I were like "by'eck she's just had a baby I wonder how that happened. Surely it's reasonable in the circumstances to stay a bit longer" Isn't it. Why is it reasonable plant yourself in one place just cause a baby popped out? Doesn’t happen to proper nomads. Ok if she had some medical complications then maybe, but I’m told that childbirth is a natural condition, not an illness. Allegedly. Try parking your car in a 1hr slot for weeks and using the excuse “Oh I seem to have just had a baby!” and see where that gets you. If it’s reasonable to overstay just because one has had a baby, is it also reasonable to overstay because one has just done an enormous shit? If not, that is discrimination on the grounds of gender and SO UNFAIR! I've just shelled some peas, need to stay here for several weeks to recuperate...
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 8, 2021 8:30:25 GMT
You misunderstand me, my fault I guess for not explaining properly. As I understand it from Nigel, the legislation in its original draft required all boats to have a home mooring. As it went through Parliament representations were made on behalf of those who wanted to explore the whole system over years, so the draft legislation was altered to allow for this. Apparently this is all in Hansard if one cares to have a spare few weeks to find it! Pre-1995 act, was there a requirement to have a home mooring or not? Can’t remember. Struggling a bit I think, Nick ... Why would BW draft a bill that required all boats to have a home mooring if a legal requirement to have a home mooring already existed? Since such matters are not opinion but are matters of fact, perhaps you’d like to clarify the facts relating the passage of that element of the 1995 act?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 9:10:49 GMT
I must admit, I share Johnv 's views on this - I'm all for live and let live but when you join a club... be it golf, squash, gym etc. you agree in principle to abide by it's rules/operating procedures. It's simple - if you don't want to move your boat around, get a mooring. There are plenty around and most will turn a blind eye in regards a full time live-aboard being on a 'leisure' mooring - even if they don't, it' not hard to go off your mooring for a couple of nights a month so the moorings manager can tick a box. Trouble is - the canal network does appear to be developing (for want of a better word) a class system... and by that I don't mean folks that think "I'm better than you cause I have more money" folks... more along the lines of there are some/many whom want to being in the club so to speak, but not play by the rules (be them open to misinterpretation or otherwise). OK there are some people that look down their noses at scabby looking boats (and the folks on them) but the majority still interact on a level playing field when out boating... it's only when they bunch up on some moorings somewhere full of over stayers things can get a bit tetchy. I have to admit, when I've been up and down a stretch (take the last month or so going from Buggy down the peak forest, then the mac and t&m down to stone, a couple of times each way, the 'same boats' are in the 'same places' - getting in the way - CRT don't help either by dumping boats on lock landings cause it's easier than banging a pin in PROPERLY. Obviously cause I travel around an awful lot, I come across more and more piss-takers... conveniently broken down on lock landings /swing bridge landings (cause they are too lazy to bow haul 40 yards and bang a pin in) or right on water points... more and more grp's are cluttering up the aforementioned bollards just abandoned for weeks/months on end... eventually ending up vandalized when the local scrotes cotton on that no one is visiting the boat. Even up the Caldon on the 24 hour moorings there is boat after boat that don't move - we only raced up and down over 3 days but the same ones in the same places on the 24 hour moorings hadn't budged. Interestingly (if a little right wing even for me) I got talking to a woman yesterday at Etruria, and she suggested crt dig out some new marinas and invite all the continuous moorings to live in there... kind of like a big boating council estate... thus clearing the canal for 'proper' ccers. At fist I thought she was joking but on continuing the conversation, she WAS serious... having given it a bit of thought it's not actually a bad idea.... after all, local authorities set up gypsy/traveler sites at their expense so why not do the same for boaters without a home mooring? An interesting post and what I am struggling with is with all the boats on the canals how can the CRT keep tabs on every single boat's movements, or non movements to be more precise. I'm pretty sure they haven't got the manpower or resources to log every boat's movements to know who's moored where and for exactly how long etc. I may be wrong but as far as I can make out as long as you don't take the piss, which clearly some boaters are, and move a reasonable distance, you will be ok. *Edit* yup, reading the following posts, looks like i'm wrong...
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 8, 2021 9:17:19 GMT
I must admit, I share Johnv 's views on this - I'm all for live and let live but when you join a club... be it golf, squash, gym etc. you agree in principle to abide by it's rules/operating procedures. It's simple - if you don't want to move your boat around, get a mooring. There are plenty around and most will turn a blind eye in regards a full time live-aboard being on a 'leisure' mooring - even if they don't, it' not hard to go off your mooring for a couple of nights a month so the moorings manager can tick a box. Trouble is - the canal network does appear to be developing (for want of a better word) a class system... and by that I don't mean folks that think "I'm better than you cause I have more money" folks... more along the lines of there are some/many whom want to being in the club so to speak, but not play by the rules (be them open to misinterpretation or otherwise). OK there are some people that look down their noses at scabby looking boats (and the folks on them) but the majority still interact on a level playing field when out boating... it's only when they bunch up on some moorings somewhere full of over stayers things can get a bit tetchy. I have to admit, when I've been up and down a stretch (take the last month or so going from Buggy down the peak forest, then the mac and t&m down to stone, a couple of times each way, the 'same boats' are in the 'same places' - getting in the way - CRT don't help either by dumping boats on lock landings cause it's easier than banging a pin in PROPERLY. Obviously cause I travel around an awful lot, I come across more and more piss-takers... conveniently broken down on lock landings /swing bridge landings (cause they are too lazy to bow haul 40 yards and bang a pin in) or right on water points... more and more grp's are cluttering up the aforementioned bollards just abandoned for weeks/months on end... eventually ending up vandalized when the local scrotes cotton on that no one is visiting the boat. Even up the Caldon on the 24 hour moorings there is boat after boat that don't move - we only raced up and down over 3 days but the same ones in the same places on the 24 hour moorings hadn't budged. Interestingly (if a little right wing even for me) I got talking to a woman yesterday at Etruria, and she suggested crt dig out some new marinas and invite all the continuous moorings to live in there... kind of like a big boating council estate... thus clearing the canal for 'proper' ccers. At fist I thought she was joking but on continuing the conversation, she WAS serious... having given it a bit of thought it's not actually a bad idea.... after all, local authorities set up gypsy/traveler sites at their expense so why not do the same for boaters without a home mooring? An interesting post and what I am struggling with is with all the boats on the canals how can the CRT keep tabs on every single boat's movements, or non movements to be more precise. I'm pretty sure they haven't got the manpower or resources to log every boat's movements to know who's moored where and for exactly how long etc. Data loggers patrol the canals at regular fixed intervals noting boat names and numbers. It's a bit of a flawed system in that a boat can have moved a long way in between sightings, but that's what they do.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 8, 2021 9:17:52 GMT
I must admit, I share Johnv 's views on this - I'm all for live and let live but when you join a club... be it golf, squash, gym etc. you agree in principle to abide by it's rules/operating procedures. It's simple - if you don't want to move your boat around, get a mooring. There are plenty around and most will turn a blind eye in regards a full time live-aboard being on a 'leisure' mooring - even if they don't, it' not hard to go off your mooring for a couple of nights a month so the moorings manager can tick a box. Trouble is - the canal network does appear to be developing (for want of a better word) a class system... and by that I don't mean folks that think "I'm better than you cause I have more money" folks... more along the lines of there are some/many whom want to being in the club so to speak, but not play by the rules (be them open to misinterpretation or otherwise). OK there are some people that look down their noses at scabby looking boats (and the folks on them) but the majority still interact on a level playing field when out boating... it's only when they bunch up on some moorings somewhere full of over stayers things can get a bit tetchy. I have to admit, when I've been up and down a stretch (take the last month or so going from Buggy down the peak forest, then the mac and t&m down to stone, a couple of times each way, the 'same boats' are in the 'same places' - getting in the way - CRT don't help either by dumping boats on lock landings cause it's easier than banging a pin in PROPERLY. Obviously cause I travel around an awful lot, I come across more and more piss-takers... conveniently broken down on lock landings /swing bridge landings (cause they are too lazy to bow haul 40 yards and bang a pin in) or right on water points... more and more grp's are cluttering up the aforementioned bollards just abandoned for weeks/months on end... eventually ending up vandalized when the local scrotes cotton on that no one is visiting the boat. Even up the Caldon on the 24 hour moorings there is boat after boat that don't move - we only raced up and down over 3 days but the same ones in the same places on the 24 hour moorings hadn't budged. Interestingly (if a little right wing even for me) I got talking to a woman yesterday at Etruria, and she suggested crt dig out some new marinas and invite all the continuous moorings to live in there... kind of like a big boating council estate... thus clearing the canal for 'proper' ccers. At fist I thought she was joking but on continuing the conversation, she WAS serious... having given it a bit of thought it's not actually a bad idea.... after all, local authorities set up gypsy/traveler sites at their expense so why not do the same for boaters without a home mooring? An interesting post and what I am struggling with is with all the boats on the canals how can the CRT keep tabs on every single boat's movements, or non movements to be more precise. I'm pretty sure they haven't got the manpower or resources to log every boat's movements to know who's moored where and for exactly how long etc. They do have patrols that cover all the cut (allegedly) - you sometimes see folk walking along with iPad things making a note of boat index numbers. I think they are supposed to patrol at least every 2 weeks. Unfortunately the system isn’t very robust, for example people have been ticketed for being in the same place after more than 2 weeks when in fact in the intervening time they have been hundreds of miles AND the boat is pointing in the opposite direction! Of course what they do about the increasing number of boats that don’t display any identity, which is a clear breach of the bylaws, I don’t know. Probably put it on the “too difficult” pile and busy themselves with easier targets.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 9:23:28 GMT
There you go, I didn't know about this, I am learning all the time! I guess the point of my original post is I don't want to fall foul of the regulations and cause any problems for myself in the future.
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Post by thebfg on Aug 8, 2021 10:15:33 GMT
There you go, I didn't know about this, I am learning all the time! I guess the point of my original post is I don't want to fall foul of the regulations and cause any problems for myself in the future. Very few do. You will receive lots of warnings. Sometimes they're wrong and need correcting but if not just improve on what your doing. Getting into serious trouble takes a lot of time and effort. Don't worry about it. Took them 4 years to take/steal/S8 Tony's boat and he was not even registered. If you cruise around the network not overstaying you won't have any issues what so ever. It's often said that of you talk to them they are understanding if issues arise. Honestly, don't worry about it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 10:21:12 GMT
There you go, I didn't know about this, I am learning all the time! I guess the point of my original post is I don't want to fall foul of the regulations and cause any problems for myself in the future. Give us an idea of what you intend to do (cruising wise) and people on here will let you know how close or not you are likely to get into trouble with the 'regulations'.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 8, 2021 10:26:55 GMT
Couple of times I have needed to overstay (with Shapfell my yoghurt pot) both times I phoned the fact in and said why ..... both times on visitor moorings and had no problem. If you need to overstay for a genuine reason I think it only sensible (and to be honest, fair) to inform CRT (actually thinking about it, it was pre CRT)
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