Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 18:53:23 GMT
It should be quite easy to find out where the water is coming from by making the area completely dry then putting down newspaper, bogroll etc.
If it's not coming from the stern tube then it must be a weld problem either rudder post or just a hull plating seam.
Most likely the stern tube liner (if it has one) is nackered and needs replacing but normally the packing would sort that plus the greaser.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 19:07:22 GMT
Yep, I put my hand on the greaser at every opportunity, though probably not every time I turn off the engine, also I assume its only relevant when the engine is in gear, not when in idle eg charging batteries. Seems to me an awful lot of grease ends up in the engine hole. How much grease does one use in a year, I think I use less than a pot of Morris's. I don't do more than 300 engine hours, maybe 250 propulsion hours. The grease goes down the stern tube not in the engine hole - if it ends up there you should already be sinking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 19:11:15 GMT
I put my hand on the greaser at every opportunity Batteries or 240V?
|
|
|
Post by tonyb on Oct 27, 2021 19:28:33 GMT
Yep, I put my hand on the greaser at every opportunity, though probably not every time I turn off the engine, also I assume its only relevant when the engine is in gear, not when in idle eg charging batteries. Seems to me an awful lot of grease ends up in the engine hole. How much grease does one use in a year, I think I use less than a pot of Morris's. I don't do more than 300 engine hours, maybe 250 propulsion hours. That grease suggest the stern gland is either a bit loose or the packing needs renewing. I agree with the others, it is not a daily job. More a question of a visual check for dripping just before you tighten the greaser and then try to adjust it if it is more than two to four drips a minute.
When adjusting turn each side the same number of flats while turning the shaft. You should be able to turn the shaft by hand (unless the gearbox is a Lister L150) for the reason someone said above.
If you can't stop the drip by adjustment then it probably needs repacking if the shaft/gland is not worn.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 20:38:27 GMT
Yep, I put my hand on the greaser at every opportunity, though probably not every time I turn off the engine, also I assume its only relevant when the engine is in gear, not when in idle eg charging batteries. Seems to me an awful lot of grease ends up in the engine hole. How much grease does one use in a year, I think I use less than a pot of Morris's. I don't do more than 300 engine hours, maybe 250 propulsion hours. That grease suggest the stern gland is either a bit loose or the packing needs renewing. I agree with the others, it is not a daily job. More a question of a visual check for dripping just before you tighten the greaser and then try to adjust it if it is more than two to four drips a minute.
When adjusting turn each side the same number of flats while turning the shaft. You should be able to turn the shaft by hand (unless the gearbox is a Lister L150) for the reason someone said above.
If you can't stop the drip by adjustment then it probably needs repacking if the shaft/gland is not worn.
This is what I think, seems to me that Mr Boatyard did not want to do the re packing, so just went through the tightening procedure, and then when that did not work, as evidenced by the continued leak, made up this idea that the nuts need tightened every day. It's not easy to see how I can get this sorted, having already forked out £120 labour, essentially to change oil and fuel filters. I provided the ATF, he provided filters and 5l of oil. In the past the others have shown me the magnetic sump nut,,o on the prm 120. He struggled with the Pela extraction pump, but I did see the old oil going in to a container, so I'm sure both oils have Bern changed. There was a new prop shaft three years ago, according to previous owner, so I'd not expect to wear out in 500 propulsion hours. Mr Boatyard demonstrated the tightening of nuts and turning of the prop shaft, but he has been adamant that there is nothing more to do than a daily check, and tightening. His patience with me is clearly exhausted, and I can do no more about it.
|
|
|
Post by tonyb on Oct 27, 2021 20:49:04 GMT
Can you post photos on Thunderboat? If so any chance of a photo of the gland so we can have a look. Something you said about the nuts makes me suspect no adjustment was done but lock nuts may have been loose but I would prefer to see exactly what you have got.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Oct 27, 2021 20:58:13 GMT
Just for clarity, in order from back to front one has the canal water, the stern bearing, the greaser connection and the stern gland. So when you turn the greaser, the grease should mostly go backwards through the bearing and into the canal. If a lot of grease is coming forwards through the stern gland into the boat, that means the stern gland isn’t doing it’s job properly (either too loose, or packing worn out).
You can visually check whether the packing needs replacing by how close the two flanges (pulled together by the studs and nuts you previously mentioned) are. If they are getting very close, a lot of thread on the studs showing beyond the nuts, then the packing needs replacing. If there is 1/2 inch or so between the faces of the flanges, the packing is still adequate.
One thing that can happen is that the prop shaft to stern bearing has a lot of radial play. This allows the prop shaft to chatter around and abrade the stern gland packing, so it needs very frequent adjusting. That is bad news as the solution is to replace the stern bearing and prop shaft. But since the boat had a new prop shaft recently, hopefully this isn’t an issue. Although if the engine is badly out of alignment this can cause accelerated wear of the stern bearing and prop shaft.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 22:03:07 GMT
Can you post photos on Thunderboat? If so any chance of a photo of the gland so we can have a look. Something you said about the nuts makes me suspect no adjustment was done but lock nuts may have been loose but I would prefer to see exactly what you have got. He removed the bronze outside nuts from the bolts, and showed me tightening the inners, quarter turn at a time, I could see most of it, and he put the outer nuts on, also turned the prop shaft, so it was a demo of the method. Ive never tried photos, I have a phone, and a tablet, will try...... I'll be honest, I thought the flanges were too close together and lots of bolt exposed. I'll try to get measurements, but still, if it was that obvious why would he not sort it, I don't have any materials or an extracting tool, but he must have, he's a registered dealer, not just any old mechanic, so must have plenty experience replacing worn engines etc. I think there is some chatter from the prop, and I mentioned it to him, he said its probably stuff round the prop and to look in weed hatch. I will do that when I feel up to it. There is plenty of rubbish, logs etc in the canal, I tend to keep my hand on the throttle and knock it out of gear if I hear something, then apply astern if the water is clean, sometimes bits appear out the back, I'm not sure how much more I can do, to be honest, the amount of hassle per linear mile is just ridiculous. I've sort of had to ignore things for a few days as I needed to actually move the boat! Obviously Mr Boatyard does not want to know, I think I'll have to sort this myself, I hope I don't sink the boat. The only boatyard I could try is a hire place, but I can't get the boat there, did I mention the canal is closed to thru navigation till Easter?
|
|
|
Post by tonyb on Oct 28, 2021 7:10:03 GMT
It sounds to me as if he simply did not turn the nuts enough. Do the same while turning the shaft while the gland is dripping. One flat each side at a time. Tighten the lock nuts (outer nuts) when ether the drip stops or the shaft starts to feel resistance.
I have seen glands with a nut each side of the flange on the pusher. If that has been yours then messing with the ones on the engine side of the flange would have done nothing unless the ones on the other side had been moved towards the prop first. I wanted to be sure that yours is not like this.
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 28, 2021 7:55:10 GMT
Can you post photos on Thunderboat? If so any chance of a photo of the gland so we can have a look. Something you said about the nuts makes me suspect no adjustment was done but lock nuts may have been loose but I would prefer to see exactly what you have got. He removed the bronze outside nuts from the bolts, and showed me tightening the inners, quarter turn at a time, I could see most of it, and he put the outer nuts on, also turned the prop shaft, so it was a demo of the method. Ive never tried photos, I have a phone, and a tablet, will try...... I'll be honest, I thought the flanges were too close together and lots of bolt exposed. I'll try to get measurements, but still, if it was that obvious why would he not sort it, I don't have any materials or an extracting tool, but he must have, he's a registered dealer, not just any old mechanic, so must have plenty experience replacing worn engines etc. I think there is some chatter from the prop, and I mentioned it to him, he said its probably stuff round the prop and to look in weed hatch. I will do that when I feel up to it. There is plenty of rubbish, logs etc in the canal, I tend to keep my hand on the throttle and knock it out of gear if I hear something, then apply astern if the water is clean, sometimes bits appear out the back, I'm not sure how much more I can do, to be honest, the amount of hassle per linear mile is just ridiculous. I've sort of had to ignore things for a few days as I needed to actually move the boat! Obviously Mr Boatyard does not want to know, I think I'll have to sort this myself, I hope I don't sink the boat. The only boatyard I could try is a hire place, but I can't get the boat there, did I mention the canal is closed to thru navigation till Easter? Is what you call "chatter" from the prop a sound or is it actually a light vibration ? If it's a light, slightly muffled tinkling sound then you've almost certainly picked up some fencing wire on it, . . a more common occurrence on rural lengths of canal than in urban areas, due to cattle trampling fences down to get to the water's edge to drink. The wire itself makes a negligible difference to propulsive efficiency, . . but it does tend to make the prop more prone to picking up and retaining other stuff that it would normally throw off quite easily if the wire wasn't there. Before you move the boat again it would be as well to check the prop for any wire or anything similar -- such as the metal banding strip that's put round palleted items -- and if there is any of it tangled round the tail shaft and the blades, get rid of every last bit of it. Getting some photo's of the stuffing box and tailshaft, as tonyb has said, would be very useful, . . but in the meantime you should find that you can slow the leakage from the stern gland a bit more effectively with grease if, instead of turning the greaser with everything stopped, you give the greaser a couple of turns with the engine idling in ahead gear immediately before shifting to neutral -- doing that spreads the grease round inside the stuffing box and bearing more effectively than with everything stationary.
|
|
|
Post by patty on Oct 28, 2021 8:58:22 GMT
OK, so I don't do long trips, usually 2 hours give or take, and I don't always check oil, but I never tighten the nuts on the plate that press the stuffing box. So I got a boatyard (very experienced), to service the engine, and stated that far too much water was coming in to boat, at stern. He showed me how to tighten it up, unscrew outer nuts, quarter turn inner nuts 17 mm bronze. Stated this was part of daily checks, well I've never seen anyone doing this on YouTube, and not seen it on the forum either. I just can't believe it! Obviously, it is barely accessible, and Ive done maybe 12 hours in gear, so really not a lot. Is this yet another thing they don't tell you, I assume the stuffing box is OK, I did ask..... I didn't sign up for all these problems, if its not the infrastructure collapsing around me, it's the bloody boat! I was told the greaser was a daily job post cruising but tightening the nuts only now and again... I had a Tupperware container under the stern greaser to collect any drips. In fact the guy who did fit out etc of my boat was adamant that those nuts were not to be tightened every day. He did say a quarter of a turn each.
|
|
|
Post by quaysider on Oct 29, 2021 5:27:32 GMT
I'm too late to this party, but I've now got 5000 hours on Ellis and I've probably had to tighten the nuts 4 - maybe 5 times in the last 5 years...I do get a bit of grease out "the wrong side" these days - more so since I bent my prop but a few twists of the greaser (after a long day chugging) can still stop all water... until I move again.
I've lost track of where you are but Ian (yes I know he's my guilty pleasure) the owner of Pennine Cruisers in Skipton would be my first choice to have a chat with.
|
|
|
Post by JohnV on Oct 29, 2021 7:22:40 GMT
I need to grease every evening (which stops the slight drip) and I get a little bit of grease from the inboard end as well. Although I had a new propshaft and sand seal made when I drydocked in 2017 (bloody hell was it that long ago) the tube is 80 odd years old so it would be surprising if there wasn't a bit of wear
|
|
|
Post by brummieboy on Oct 29, 2021 9:45:00 GMT
I also get a little grease through the front of my gland, but only after it has been running, and a light film. I also have Aquadrive, which must minimise any engine vibration. Do you have a plumber block? That is a fixed bearing between the prop shaft and the drive coupling?
|
|
|
Post by JohnV on Oct 29, 2021 14:20:57 GMT
I also get a little grease through the front of my gland, but only after it has been running, and a light film. I also have Aquadrive, which must minimise any engine vibration. Do you have a plumber block? That is a fixed bearing between the prop shaft and the drive coupling? not sure if the question was for me or socks ......... but if it was for me .....
Sabina does not have a plumber block and is direct onto flexdrive on gearbox but it is far too short to need one ...there is only about 0.8 metre between the end of the prop tube and greaser and the gearbox on a 2 1/4" shaft
|
|