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Post by Tony Dunkley on Nov 13, 2021 6:20:14 GMT
The boat was out in July, and the yard mentioned what good condition it was in, one piece of galvanic the size of a penny. It was inspected, to some extent, and wire brushed, I coated every inch myself, with three coats of two pack to ensure the best job was done. The RCR have allowed a sum to cover fixing corrosion and around on the rudder but I know it was brute force that caused the breakage. The insurance is only about half of what conventional companies charge, it is a brokerege, backed by a Lloyd's company, I have a £400 excess, but while the job is simple, hopefully, if I don't claim, I have to sit on the cut all winter, then pay for cranage, and the fitter, so best to bite the bullet and be back to normal. To hire a crane myself, now will be far more than £400. Even if one does not claim, you have to mention any incident, well at least you do with a car accident. I just want no hassle. Nobody wants hassle, . . but there's every possibility that might be just what you're letting yourself in for, to say nothing of a lot of additional unnecessary expense, by handing the whole job over to RCR to divvy up and sub-out to several other companies. If RCR have led you to believe that any repairs or cost attributable to corrosion, including corroded/wasted and weakened bolts, or any repairs necessitated by or consequential to any corrosion, will be covered under an insurance claim, then they're leading you up the garden path. The condition of any bolts that have sheared off will be the focus of attention from the insurers, and unless those bolts have been drawn and inspected recently there's no way that anybody can have known what state they were in. Unless this Wayne fellow who came out to you yesterday knows exactly how the whole rudder and stock assembly is put together on those Tyler hulls like yours -- one piece job or two piece with a flange between the rudder's top edge and the counter bottom -- then the whole question of whether or not the boat needs to be docked or craned out is nothing more than uninformed guesswork. Guesswork that could lead to you being lumbered with having to fork out for a substantial part of the final bill total. I strongly advise you to further explore the feasibility of repairs carried out where you are now, before relinquishing control of the job, and control of the cost of the job to RCR or anyone else. As I said yesterday, the first step is to stop relying on guesswork and get details of the whole rudder assembly from the hull builders, and then use that info to make a more thorough informed assessment of what repairs or replacements are needed. When I spoke to Tylers yesterday they were very ready to help out in any way they could, and said to get back to them if any more info or advice was wanted. This won't be the first of their hulls ever to suffer rudder assembly damage -- who better could there be to go to for guidance on precisely what the damage is likely to be, based on previous similar instances of the problems you've now got ? Is there a hull number on a builder's plate anywhere on board, or failing that, do you you know the build date ? Ps. I see from your posts on CWDF that you're actually at Barrowford Middle Lock, not the Top Lock. Have a walk up to the top, and you'll see that the top two pounds are very short - the second one down is the shortest - only about three boat's lengths. That's the ideal one to dry out your boat in.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 13, 2021 9:44:34 GMT
The boat was out in July, and the yard mentioned what good condition it was in, one piece of galvanic the size of a penny. It was inspected, to some extent, and wire brushed, I coated every inch myself, with three coats of two pack to ensure the best job was done. The RCR have allowed a sum to cover fixing corrosion and around on the rudder but I know it was brute force that caused the breakage. The insurance is only about half of what conventional companies charge, it is a brokerege, backed by a Lloyd's company, I have a £400 excess, but while the job is simple, hopefully, if I don't claim, I have to sit on the cut all winter, then pay for cranage, and the fitter, so best to bite the bullet and be back to normal. To hire a crane myself, now will be far more than £400. Even if one does not claim, you have to mention any incident, well at least you do with a car accident. I just want no hassle. Nobody wants hassle, . . but there's every possibility that might be just what you're letting yourself in for, to say nothing of a lot of additional unnecessary expense, by handing the whole job over to RCR to divvy up and sub-out to several other companies. If RCR have led you to believe that any repairs or cost attributable to corrosion, including corroded/wasted and weakened bolts, or any repairs necessitated by or consequential to any corrosion, will be covered under an insurance claim, then they're leading you up the garden path. The condition of any bolts that have sheared off will be the focus of attention from the insurers, and unless those bolts have been drawn and inspected recently there's no way that anybody can have known what state they were in. Unless this Wayne fellow who came out to you yesterday knows exactly how the whole rudder and stock assembly is put together on those Tyler hulls like yours -- one piece job or two piece with a flange between the rudder's top edge and the counter bottom -- then the whole question of whether or not the boat needs to be docked or craned out is nothing more than uninformed guesswork. Guesswork that could lead to you being lumbered with having to fork out for a substantial part of the final bill total. I strongly advise you to further explore the feasibility of repairs carried out where you are now, before relinquishing control of the job, and control of the cost of the job to RCR or anyone else. As I said yesterday, the first step is to stop relying on guesswork and get details of the whole rudder assembly from the hull builders, and then use that info to make a more thorough informed assessment of what repairs or replacements are needed. When I spoke to Tylers yesterday they were very ready to help out in any way they could, and said to get back to them if any more info or advice was wanted. This won't be the first of their hulls ever to suffer rudder assembly damage -- who better could there be to go to for guidance on precisely what the damage is likely to be, based on previous similar instances of the problems you've now got ? Is there a hull number on a builder's plate anywhere on board, or failing that, do you you know the build date ? Ps. I see from your posts on CWDF that you're actually at Barrowford Middle Lock, not the Top Lock. Have a walk up to the top, and you'll see that the top two pounds are very short - the second one down is the shortest - only about three boat's lengths. That's the ideal one to dry out your boat in. I generally agree with you, and if it were you or me that’s what would happen. However I think you are failing to take into account the nature of the OP and I suspect she is neither physically nor psychologically capable of doing it herself. No doubt RCR will make a fine profit out of it as you say, but there is no feasible alternative.
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Post by patty on Nov 13, 2021 10:10:18 GMT
Nobody wants hassle, . . but there's every possibility that might be just what you're letting yourself in for, to say nothing of a lot of additional unnecessary expense, by handing the whole job over to RCR to divvy up and sub-out to several other companies. If RCR have led you to believe that any repairs or cost attributable to corrosion, including corroded/wasted and weakened bolts, or any repairs necessitated by or consequential to any corrosion, will be covered under an insurance claim, then they're leading you up the garden path. The condition of any bolts that have sheared off will be the focus of attention from the insurers, and unless those bolts have been drawn and inspected recently there's no way that anybody can have known what state they were in. Unless this Wayne fellow who came out to you yesterday knows exactly how the whole rudder and stock assembly is put together on those Tyler hulls like yours -- one piece job or two piece with a flange between the rudder's top edge and the counter bottom -- then the whole question of whether or not the boat needs to be docked or craned out is nothing more than uninformed guesswork. Guesswork that could lead to you being lumbered with having to fork out for a substantial part of the final bill total. I strongly advise you to further explore the feasibility of repairs carried out where you are now, before relinquishing control of the job, and control of the cost of the job to RCR or anyone else. As I said yesterday, the first step is to stop relying on guesswork and get details of the whole rudder assembly from the hull builders, and then use that info to make a more thorough informed assessment of what repairs or replacements are needed. When I spoke to Tylers yesterday they were very ready to help out in any way they could, and said to get back to them if any more info or advice was wanted. This won't be the first of their hulls ever to suffer rudder assembly damage -- who better could there be to go to for guidance on precisely what the damage is likely to be, based on previous similar instances of the problems you've now got ? Is there a hull number on a builder's plate anywhere on board, or failing that, do you you know the build date ? Ps. I see from your posts on CWDF that you're actually at Barrowford Middle Lock, not the Top Lock. Have a walk up to the top, and you'll see that the top two pounds are very short - the second one down is the shortest - only about three boat's lengths. That's the ideal one to dry out your boat in. I generally agree with you, and if it were you or me that’s what would happen. However I think you are failing to take into account the nature of the OP and I suspect she is neither physically nor psychologically capable of doing it herself. No doubt RCR will make a fine profit out of it as you say, but there is no feasible alternative. I think Socks has made the right decision.. sometimes u just gotta let the experts take over Hope it all gets sorted soon
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 10:43:28 GMT
OK folks, I've sorted out what needs to be sorted, no need for further intervention from Dunkley. End of message.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Nov 13, 2021 11:00:30 GMT
I generally agree with you, and if it were you or me that’s what would happen. However I think you are failing to take into account the nature of the OP and I suspect she is neither physically nor psychologically capable of doing it herself. No doubt RCR will make a fine profit out of it as you say, but there is no feasible alternative. I think Socks has made the right decision.. sometimes u just gotta let the experts take over Hope it all gets sorted soon From what I've seen, and heard, of RCR and it's Canal Contracting offshoot, the only expertise they have is in making a huge song and dance about doing crap jobs that get overcharged for. Socks has had more than her fair share of problems with a seemingly endless procession of useless buggers that she's entrusted with various jobs on her boat, . . culminating with the one that came out to her yesterday. I hope she does reconsider the course of action she seems set on at the moment. Her present problems, which both I and the people who built the hull don't think are likely to come to anything more than replacing a few bolts, couldn't have happened at a more convenient spot -- one of the shortest pounds on the whole canal system, and with vehicle access alongside the boat IF there's anything else apart from the sheared bolts that needs more serious attention.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 11:30:03 GMT
Everything is in hand, no further intervention required, thanks to those who were supportive. I'm believe loads of folks ask for a tow, that's essentially what I need now, everything else is sorted. RCR can arrange a tow if shove comes to push, but quickest solution to use another NB. Problem is, even on a beautiful day like today, I am alone on the navigation, sort of like Marie Celeste, sort of.... I'll have to put Dunkley on ignore before I get even more annoyed 😁 If the people who built the boat come out on Monday and fix it, I will give them £250 in cash. The one and only time I asked them to check something, if I brought the boat to Sheffield, they told me they were boat builders, using essentially the same design for over a hundred years, and that was the end of the conversation. Dunkley now dismisses the guy who came to look at my boat, I have taken the advice of the man who has seen the boat. The boat has to come out as there iis no way other way to access the rudder.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 11:37:19 GMT
Everything is in hand, no further intervention required, thanks to those who were supportive. I'm believe loads of folks ask for a tow, that's essentially what I need now, everything else is sorted. RCR can arrange a tow if shove comes to push, but quickest solution to use another NB. Problem is, even on a beautiful day like today, I am alone on the navigation, sort of like Marie Celeste, sort of.... I'll have to put Dunkley on ignore before I get even more annoyed 😁 A bit harsh. From what I have read, he was trying to help you out.
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Post by brummieboy on Nov 13, 2021 12:26:15 GMT
Everything is in hand, no further intervention required, thanks to those who were supportive. I'm believe loads of folks ask for a tow, that's essentially what I need now, everything else is sorted. RCR can arrange a tow if shove comes to push, but quickest solution to use another NB. Problem is, even on a beautiful day like today, I am alone on the navigation, sort of like Marie Celeste, sort of.... I'll have to put Dunkley on ignore before I get even more annoyed 😁 A bit harsh. From what I have read, he was trying to help you out. As others have said, the same circumstances with different people would have a different solution. There are many people who have little idea about the technical things in their lives and rely on professionals. As one such professional in a service field, heating, I am all too aware of the different levels of competency and the ability of some unscrupulous characters to make a fast buck. Tony has a lifetime of experience in boats, and paddling about in a drained pound would probably not phase him. It is certainly not something I would want to do. I've read about, and also seen evidence of RCR and their associated companies, some good, some bad, but most middling. In Sock's position, I would do exactly the same. She knows that she has to find the £400 excess, but someone else has undertaken to organise the whole job. Had she done it herself, it would still have cost her the same, or even more, but would have had the additional worry of having to handle any 'arising problems' that we all know can occur if someone scents blood. Tony is well meaning, but continually pressing home his own solution must appear concerning to Socks who now has the matter in hand. Likewise, the negative post on the other place about the probability of the insurers not covering the cost is just as unhelpful, and it has been pointed out to the individual concerned. Given her experience of other contractors 'failings', leaving this to one contact gives her some redress in the event of any foul up between boatyard and cranage etc., and I'm sure she'll soon be sorted. Good luck to her.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 14:16:57 GMT
A bit harsh. From what I have read, he was trying to help you out. As others have said, the same circumstances with different people would have a different solution. There are many people who have little idea about the technical things in their lives and rely on professionals. As one such professional in a service field, heating, I am all too aware of the different levels of competency and the ability of some unscrupulous characters to make a fast buck. Tony has a lifetime of experience in boats, and paddling about in a drained pound would probably not phase him. It is certainly not something I would want to do. I've read about, and also seen evidence of RCR and their associated companies, some good, some bad, but most middling. In Sock's position, I would do exactly the same. She knows that she has to find the £400 excess, but someone else has undertaken to organise the whole job. Had she done it herself, it would still have cost her the same, or even more, but would have had the additional worry of having to handle any 'arising problems' that we all know can occur if someone scents blood. Tony is well meaning, but continually pressing home his own solution must appear concerning to Socks who now has the matter in hand. Likewise, the negative post on the other place about the probability of the insurers not covering the cost is just as unhelpful, and it has been pointed out to the individual concerned. Given her experience of other contractors 'failings', leaving this to one contact gives her some redress in the event of any foul up between boatyard and cranage etc., and I'm sure she'll soon be sorted. Good luck to her. I agree. The solution the OP is pursuing is likely the correct one for her. But to come on an internet forum asking for advice, specifically as she was not sure if the boat needed to come out of the water, and then threatening to block the person who has supplied that advice, to me is just plane rude. A simple thank you would have sufficed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 14:31:14 GMT
The thread was opened two or three days ago, the boat has since been seen by an engineer, he has given his opinion, I have taken his advice, in the meantime RCR have contacted me, and I have taken their advice, both these professionals have given the same advice, the boat needs to come out, one on the basis that it cannot be sorted in situ, the other from the point of view of how to deal with an insurance claim. End of thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 14:35:25 GMT
The thread was opened two days ago, the boat has since been seen by an engineer, he has given his opinion, I have taken his advice, in the meantime RCR have contacted me, and I have taken their advice, both these professionals have given the same advice, the boat needs to come out, one on the basis that it cannot be sorted in situ, the other from the point of view of how to deal with an insurance claim. I'm glad you are getting it sorted. Perhaps next time go straight to the professionals and don't post on the forum if you don't want people to comment. ETA Wayne King is a very unfortunate name to be given.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 14:57:38 GMT
If you look on cfdf you will see that I asked if anyone was willing\able to give me a tow, that was the only reason for posting. That thread turned in to a mess. Similarly on here I opened discussion asking for local info, most of the replies have been unhelpful, sorry, but getting advice on how to repair a boat from a forum, well its really a bit scary, especially the one about draining a pound and sticking a bolt in the rudder, just plain mad. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The forum has its uses, one might get a personal recommendation for example, or a warning to avoid certain people, in this instance the engineer was recommended by the nearest marina, a marina which itself has a good reputation. The engineer told me it was an insurance job, that bit of info has saved me a lot of angst. For some reason TD decided I was approaching the job badly, and has continued to press his opinion. I have asked him to desist. So in this instance the advice from forum has not been particularly useful, it could well have been.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 15:03:08 GMT
If you look on cfdf you will see that I asked if anyone was willing\able to give me a tow, that was the only reason for posting. Similarly on here I opened discussion asking for local info, most of the replies have been unhelpful, sorry, but getting advice on how to repair a boat from a forum, we'll its really a bit scary, especially the one about draining a pound and sticking a few bolts in the rudder, just plain mad. You want me to look on a different forum and then comment on this one? I understand the advice isn't to your liking. All I was suggesting was that you just thank the man who took time to give it, and move on. He was just trying to help you out. Of course, you don't have to take his advice, you don't have to take anyone's advice. Anyway,good luck with it. I hope you manage to get it sorted in a timely manner. It'll soon be spring.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 15:14:26 GMT
If you look on cfdf you will see that I asked if anyone was willing\able to give me a tow, that was the only reason for posting. Similarly on here I opened discussion asking for local info, most of the replies have been unhelpful, sorry, but getting advice on how to repair a boat from a forum, we'll its really a bit scary, especially the one about draining a pound and sticking a few bolts in the rudder, just plain mad. You want me to look on a different forum and then comment on this one? I understand the advice isn't to your liking. All I was suggesting was that you just thank the man who took time to give it, and move on. He was just trying to help you out. Of course, you don't have to take his advice, you don't have to take anyone's advice. Anyway,good luck with it. I hope you manage to get it sorted in a timely manner. It'll soon be spring. I was not necessarily replying to you Rusty, I was just commenting on how comment on either forum is often mixed, but basically, and I'm not getting at you, there seem to be a large number of people who feel the need to comment on anything I post, mostly irrelevant, and often unhelpful.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 15:17:03 GMT
You want me to look on a different forum and then comment on this one? I understand the advice isn't to your liking. All I was suggesting was that you just thank the man who took time to give it, and move on. He was just trying to help you out. Of course, you don't have to take his advice, you don't have to take anyone's advice. Anyway,good luck with it. I hope you manage to get it sorted in a timely manner. It'll soon be spring. I was not necessarily replying to you Rusty, I was just commenting on how comment on either forum is often mixed, but basically, and I'm not getting at you, there seem to be a large number of people who feel the need to comment on anything I post, mostly irrelevant, and often unhelpful. That is the nature of internet forums. ETA. I'm having trouble keeping up with your edits. The best place to fix your boat was always likely to be the nearest one. Ten minutes googling would have found you the nearest boatyard that could do the job. Before the internet came along, it was a case of look in the Nicholson guide and phone around a few of the nearest ones.
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