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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 19:53:47 GMT
There is a stern fender, thanks But does it stick out as far as the rudder? Looking back, I was just a bit stunned by what had happened, I felt a cup of tea and a biscuit would help, rather than rushing about with centre lines and mooring pins. Anyway I needed waterproofs, my boots are not waterproof for some reason, so I was none too happy. I'm still not happy, but I think that's a semi-permanent situation 😅, every bloody plan smashed at birth.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Nov 13, 2021 21:04:24 GMT
. . . . . . but getting advice on how to repair a boat from a forum, well its really a bit scary, especially the one about draining a pound and sticking a bolt in the rudder, just plain mad. The forum has its uses, one might get a personal recommendation for example, or a warning to avoid certain people, in this instance the engineer was recommended by the nearest marina, a marina which itself has a good reputation. The engineer told me it was an insurance job, that bit of info has saved me a lot of angst. and : Dunkley now dismisses the guy who came to look at my boat, I have taken the advice of the man who has seen the boat. The boat has to come out as there iis no way other way to access the rudder. The knowledge, experience and the abilities of those you've chosen to put your faith in appear to be little better or any more extensive than your own. My knowledge and first experience of having to make on the spot repairs to a narrowboat with seriously damaged steering and sterngear, without ready access to a dry dock, goes back to when a loaded working boat delivering coal to the Kennet & Avon Restoration Trust's steam dredger in Reading had its skeg partially torn off and mangled in the propeller in a bridgehole full of bricks and coping stones near Heyford on the southern Oxford, . . in the early Winter of 1971. Have you not noticed what it says along the bottom of all my posts ? From 1979 until semi-retiring in 2013, I ran a successful marine engineering business alongside my commercial carrying and workboat activities. How does that compare with those I believe you've been advised to put your faith in ? Have your trusted advisers acquainted you with the precautions you need to take to prevent the possible complete loss of the rudder under tow ?
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Post by dyertribe on Nov 13, 2021 21:22:56 GMT
. . . . . . but getting advice on how to repair a boat from a forum, well its really a bit scary, especially the one about draining a pound and sticking a bolt in the rudder, just plain mad. The forum has its uses, one might get a personal recommendation for example, or a warning to avoid certain people, in this instance the engineer was recommended by the nearest marina, a marina which itself has a good reputation. The engineer told me it was an insurance job, that bit of info has saved me a lot of angst. and : Dunkley now dismisses the guy who came to look at my boat, I have taken the advice of the man who has seen the boat. The boat has to come out as there iis no way other way to access the rudder. The knowledge, experience and the abilities of those you've chosen to put your faith in appear to be little better or any more extensive than your own. My knowledge and first experience of having to make on the spot repairs, with no access to a dry dock, to a narrowboat with seriously damaged steering and sterngear goes back to when a loaded working boat delivering coal to the Kennet & Avon Restoration Trust's steam dredger in Reading had its skeg partially torn off and mangled in the propeller in a bridgehole full of bricks and coping stones near Heyford on the southern Oxford, . . in the early Winter of 1972. From 1979 until semi-retiring in 2013, I ran a successful marine engineering business alongside my commercial carrying and workboat activities. How does that compare with those I believe you've been advised to put your faith in ? Have your trusted advisers acquainted you with the precautions you need to take to prevent the possible complete loss of the rudder under tow ? No one is disputing your expertise but you are not anyway near Socks’ boat are you? So practically you are no more use than a chocolate fireguard are you? I’m a fair bit younger than Socks, however I would not risk the DIY method and venture into an emptied pound to replace a bolt as i don’t have the strength or expertise. If I did it and it worked it would save me a few hundred quid, If I tried and failed it would cost me my home, my boat and, in extremis my life. My insurance would wash their hands of and claim as I had intermingled where I should have taken and abided by professional advice.. Your advice, whilst, no doubt valuable is, I hazard to guess is not backed up by up to date Professional Indemnity Insurance?
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Nov 13, 2021 21:49:37 GMT
The knowledge, experience and the abilities of those you've chosen to put your faith in appear to be little better or any more extensive than your own. My knowledge and first experience of having to make on the spot repairs, with no access to a dry dock, to a narrowboat with seriously damaged steering and sterngear goes back to when a loaded working boat delivering coal to the Kennet & Avon Restoration Trust's steam dredger in Reading had its skeg partially torn off and mangled in the propeller in a bridgehole full of bricks and coping stones near Heyford on the southern Oxford, . . in the early Winter of 1972. From 1979 until semi-retiring in 2013, I ran a successful marine engineering business alongside my commercial carrying and workboat activities. How does that compare with those I believe you've been advised to put your faith in ? Have your trusted advisers acquainted you with the precautions you need to take to prevent the possible complete loss of the rudder under tow ? No one is disputing your expertise but you are not anyway near Socks’ boat are you? So practically you are no more use than a chocolate fireguard are you? My insurance would wash their hands of and claim as I had intermingled where I should have taken and abided by professional advice.. You're all very good at making uninformed and incorrect assumptions. Where in this thread have I indicated or suggested that Socks should attempt, or even contemplate doing the repairs herself ? One of my customers used to have a boat with a Tyler built hull - like Socks's - and he e-mailed me a sketch this morning showing the main details of the rudder assembly, . . so I now know pretty much what's likely to have happened, and what's needed to fix it
I've got to go up to Liverpool and Preston sometime during the coming week, and until this morning's outburst, I was prepared to offer to call in at Barrowford on the way back and do the job, with a second visit if necessary if the job couldn't be wrapped up in one go. Despite saying that my expertise is not in question, you differentiate between my advice and what you refer to as "professional" advice. Is there any particular reason for that, . . apart from the obvious ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 22:47:33 GMT
No one is disputing your expertise but you are not anyway near Socks’ boat are you? So practically you are no more use than a chocolate fireguard are you? My insurance would wash their hands of and claim as I had intermingled where I should have taken and abided by professional advice.. You're all very good at making uninformed and incorrect assumptions. Where in this thread have I indicated or suggested that Socks should attempt, or even contemplate doing the repairs herself ? One of my customers used to have a boat with a Tyler built hull - like Socks's - and he e-mailed me a sketch this morning showing the main details of the rudder assembly, . . so I now know pretty much what's likely to have happened, and what's needed to fix it I've got to go up to Liverpool and Preston sometime during the coming week, and until this morning's outburst, I was prepared to offer to call in at Barrowford on the way back and do the job, with a second visit in three weeks if necessary if the job couldn't be wrapped up in one go. How to play the flute Blow in one end and move your fingers up and down the holes.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 13, 2021 22:56:32 GMT
No one is disputing your expertise but you are not anyway near Socks’ boat are you? So practically you are no more use than a chocolate fireguard are you? My insurance would wash their hands of and claim as I had intermingled where I should have taken and abided by professional advice.. Despite saying that my expertise is not in question, you differentiate between my advice and what you refer to as "professional" advice. Is there any particular reason for that, . . apart from the obvious ? Yes. Professional advice is paid for. You are not charging (as far as I know) and therefore your advice is not professional. Of course associated with “professional” advice is normally some sort of contract and some sort of professional indemnity insurance, which would come into play if it should transpire that the advice was bad.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 7:54:32 GMT
Which brings us full circle to the decent and prompt advice she received on here when she reached out to her fellow boaters in her hour of need. Mr you don’t want to do it like that would have deserved swimming lessons 😂🤣 Which is kind of the point I was trying to make. The advice was useful, and potentially prevented what could have been a nasty outcome. She’d still be Ion the lock if Mr You don’t want to do it like that had his say 🤣🤣
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 8:13:07 GMT
OK, from TDs post, regarding draining a pound, I'll comment in more detail, I suspect his skin is thicker than the legendary rhinoceros..... 1) I am sure CRT would not agree to this. 2) I am sure I have neither the confidence, skills or determination to drain a pound when there are other options. 3) I can't actually move the boat, other than casual passers by there is nobody here 4) I don't have big tools, or a selection of strong bolts
TD is convinced I am being told the wrong info, as he has spoken to the builders. Draining a pound to access the rudder is what people did for generations, to allow access and repair. In the real world the equivalent today is to crane out, to allow access and repair. I might try to secure the rudder with rope before the tow, not easy as there is no hole in the tab, as the rudder did not fall off, it must be attached by some method, I will send another email to Tyler Wilson, but they have not contacted me yet. It would be great if they came, sorted it, signed the job off, and I can go boating. Who thinks this is likely to happen, not me.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 14, 2021 8:33:49 GMT
an excellent reply from socks.
Tony's immediate advice was spot on "get out of the lock immediately, tie up temporarily outside it wherever you can safely. Do not spend the night in the lock"
Any disagreeing with that are plonkers.
The next advice is what I would have been doing but then I'm from that era as well.
(I have been known to lift the back end of a narrowboat out of the water with a chain block hung on a footbridge)
The practicalities of someone doing that do depend on their physical strength, skills and the materials at hand.
Even on my little cruiser there is a full tool kit hidden away with a large selection of materials and fixings.
I even carry a handy billy (but not a chain block due to lack of storage room)
The comments about insurance quibbling are probably accurate with many but on the other hand (up to now) problems or damage to my boats has been dealt with by myself.
(I have no intention on paying out my excess on something I am perfectly capable of doing myself)
However I do understand that both Tony and I are probably out of step with the way things are viewed nowadays, (even though I think it a shame) ...... c'est la vie
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Post by JohnV on Nov 14, 2021 8:38:09 GMT
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Post by dyertribe on Nov 14, 2021 8:40:15 GMT
Despite saying that my expertise is not in question, you differentiate between my advice and what you refer to as "professional" advice. Is there any particular reason for that, . . apart from the obvious ? Yes. Professional advice is paid for. You are not charging (as far as I know) and therefore your advice is not professional. Of course associated with “professional” advice is normally some sort of contract and some sort of professional indemnity insurance, which would come into play if it should transpire that the advice was bad. Exactly my point.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 8:42:56 GMT
Offering advice is terrific. Being unnecessarily critical if it is not taken is not so terrific Rog
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 9:00:48 GMT
I am sure CRT would not agree to this. Wise man say it is easier to beg forgiveness than it is to get permission I might have gone for 'the draining the pound' option in summer but at the moment the prospect is distinctly unappealing. In any case you can't complete the repair by yourself, and accepting the clear solution actually on offer is good thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 9:08:39 GMT
(I have been known to lift the back end of a narrowboat out of the water with a chain block hung on a footbridge) Someone I knew removed an engine using a bridge and a winch. Do you recall the incident (Nottingham?) where somebody attempted to suspend their boat in a lock and the walls collapsed?
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 14, 2021 9:11:02 GMT
(I have been known to lift the back end of a narrowboat out of the water with a chain block hung on a footbridge) Someone I knew removed an engine using a bridge and a winch. Do you recall the incident (Nottingham?) where somebody attempted to suspend their boat in a lock and the walls collapsed? Yes, but that was attempting to suspend the boat using the lock-side bollards. Which was particularly stupid!
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