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Post by uiscebeo on Dec 16, 2021 23:18:10 GMT
Hi All,
We're in the design stage of a new build narrowboat with our builder! Exciting times. They're specifying a 125 gallon/470 liter tank. We've asked for one quite a bit larger. 600 to 1000 liters. We plan to CC and it seems to me that water capacity is going to be the limiting factor for staying out. They're struggling with finding a place for that larger tank. So, those of you who have a larger tank - where is it? My only thought at this point is to raise the well deck by a few inches to accommodate it. But, I think that might possibly make entry through the bow doors an issue. Any other thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 5:46:18 GMT
Hi uiscebeo, welcome to the premier un-moderated boaty forum where you can say anything you like and not get banned. Sounds good? You'll fit right in.
I'd say you should go with the recommendations of the builder when it comes to water tank size. Running out of water at 7pm is one of the joys of boating, as is waking up the next morning to find it is pissing it down as you contemplate having to go three miles in the wrong direction just to turn round to get to the water point another five miles away (which turns out to be not working).
My two penny's worth is that doing things like raising the deck level is a bad idea. One of the most overlooked parts of the boat is deck space. You may wish you had more. And co-incidentally, a longer front deck (as I see it) is the only viable solution to having a bigger water tank.
However one (slightly mad) solution would be to have a cruiser-stern back-to-front layout with no front entrance at all. Side hatches would be needed though, and it would be something of a departure from convention. There are some boats like this but they tend to be the shorter ones and they are seldom the best-looking. However you could then happily devote more space to water capacity.
One thing I dislike about most modern narrowboats - the stupid double doors at the front. It is IMO much MUCH better to have a single door to one side that opens out. This creates a far more usable space in the cabin and is far easier to make secure.
Also, don't have symmetrical windows (the same each side) unless you want to live in a goldfish bowl. Better yet, fit portholes and a skylight (there's a boaty name for that sort of thing which I have forgotten) and is also much better for security purposes.
Mind you I'm assuming all of these things are still in the design stage.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 5:59:40 GMT
You could put a second tank across the width of the boat somewhere.
Either just inside the cabin box over it and use it as one of the steps or put a tank across just in front of the engine bay and use it as a step.
If it was the width of the boat just inside the cabin let's say 2 metres long, 300mm square that would be 3x3x2 which is 180 litres.
You could make it quite a lot bigger than that and it would not be all that obtrusive. If it was a polyprop standalone tank there would always be the option of removing it later if it proved unnecessary.
Quite a nice thing to have a backup tank you don't use unless silly situations happen.
And learn to consume less water.
My little boat has 5 separate water tanks and a filtration plant but it's a home build reinforced nuclear fallout bunker so that's understandable.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 17, 2021 8:05:19 GMT
uiscebeo Welcome aboard !!!
Have you worked out what you are going to have installed on board yet ?
The choice of toilet alone can have a big effect ..... if you have a flushing toilet that uses water from your main tank, that adds up to a heck of a lot of water per person per week !!!
How many people on board and their gender ..... which will be a possible indicator to the levels of shower water required.
Washing machine or a good knowledge of launderette locations, dish washer or a plastic bowl.
I have two boats, one large (ex commercial widebeam) which has about 1200 or 1300 litre capacity this has fresh water flushing toilet, washing machine and dishwasher and with two people on board has enough water for about a month.
The other is a 25.5 foot narrowbeam cruiser with a porta potti, tiny handbasin in the toilet and a small kitchen sink. no shower and a water tank of about 100 litres which lasts me on my own .... about a month.
another thing worth remembering is that frequently your range limiting factor is your toilet waste tank capacity, there is not a lot of point in having the two wildly out of kilter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 8:16:50 GMT
Assuming pumpout toilet installation. There would be an argument for installing a separate tank if there was space and using it just for the flushing. Totally separate the flushing of toilet from the other domestic consumers. As JohnV suggests a "bog audit" is needed. It's like a "power audit" but related to the throughput of the toilet. It would be quite cool to match the size of the flushing tank with the size of the holding tank so that one filled and the other emptied at the same rate. One would need to measure stool sizes to get an accurate representation. I got into this subject on canalworld years ago as I wondered if it would be feasible to have a "floor to ceiling" tank as part of a bulkhead. I think there is something bad with water pressure if you do this but it could be interesting. make one of the partitions for the bathroom out of steel and form a tank. If it was 2m high and 1m long and 300mm wide that would be a 600 litre tank and it would only use up 1ft of the cabin space where there is a partition anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 8:22:53 GMT
It is good practice ( whatever the size of your water tank ) to NEVER pass a tap without filling as you never know if the next tap is broken. The size of tank then becomes less significant if being filled every week. Welcome to the premier forum for inane drivel, mindless crap , and self indulgent trivia. Let us know how the build goes ... exciting times Rog
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 8:40:31 GMT
We have a 900+ litre stainless tank under the front deck,it easily lasts a week. However the front deck is about 6ft long, which is longer than many and makes it a great place to sit out on sunny evenings. Someone I know (can't remember who) has a series of underfloor tanks instead of ballast all linked together, Filler into front tank take off from rear tank.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 8:43:37 GMT
I like the underfloor idea.
It seems a logical thing to do at build stage although you would need to do quite a lot of weld testing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 9:24:43 GMT
Assuming pumpout toilet installation. There would be an argument for installing a separate tank if there was space and using it just for the flushing. Totally separate the flushing of toilet from the other domestic consumers. As JohnV suggests a "bog audit" is needed. It's like a "power audit" but related to the throughput of the toilet. It would be quite cool to match the size of the flushing tank with the size of the holding tank so that one filled and the other emptied at the same rate. One would need to measure stool sizes to get an accurate representation. I got into this subject on canalworld years ago as I wondered if it would be feasible to have a "floor to ceiling" tank as part of a bulkhead. I think there is something bad with water pressure if you do this but it could be interesting. make one of the partitions for the bathroom out of steel and form a tank. If it was 2m high and 1m long and 300mm wide that would be a 600 litre tank and it would only use up 1ft of the cabin space where there is a partition anyway. As anybody who has worked in any hierarchical structure could tell you, shit rolls downhill. So your system would work up until the point the tanks were equally full. After that you would need a pump. I imagine quite a strong one (and an efficient non-return valve). But the 'buy a fricking big boat' solution would work too, as would the 'just wipe your nadgers with a flannel' motif. Cor it's good here. ETA I'll always conclude the 'Thetford' type solution is best but a side hatch in the toilet compartment would be good since this would obviate the need to hoick the cassette through the boat (as well as effectively dealing with noxious odours).
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Post by Telemachus on Dec 17, 2021 9:38:33 GMT
Hi All, We're in the design stage of a new build narrowboat with our builder! Exciting times. They're specifying a 125 gallon/470 liter tank. We've asked for one quite a bit larger. 600 to 1000 liters. We plan to CC and it seems to me that water capacity is going to be the limiting factor for staying out. They're struggling with finding a place for that larger tank. So, those of you who have a larger tank - where is it? My only thought at this point is to raise the well deck by a few inches to accommodate it. But, I think that might possibly make entry through the bow doors an issue. Any other thoughts? It’s all about compromise. I suggest that having a larger watertank / raised well deck, would be resented every day as you struggle to get in an out. In terms of the services readily available, water is the best. One is rarely more than a few hours cruise from a water point. So it would only be an issue if you intended to spend the full 2 weeks not moving. Also worth bearing in mind what uses water - the main one is a washing machine. So it depends on whether you have one. Showers don’t use much water especially if you get into the habit of wetting, soaping up with the water off, then rinsing. And there is certainly no need to shower every day, except maybe in very hot weather. Get out of the habit of brushing you teeth, washing up things etc under a running tap. Bear in mind that changing the design of a boat can have unintended consequences. I’m thinking of freeboard to the gas locker vents. You don’t want the vents getting too near or under the waterline, or the stern counter coming out of the water, when you fill the tank. Definitely have an accurate water tank gauge, this takes all the uncertainly out of when you might run out.
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Post by cygnus on Dec 17, 2021 10:04:13 GMT
A longer well-deck, rather than the usual 4 or 5ft in my mind looks better on a narrowboat anyway. That would make room for a bigger tank. You haven't given details about your new build, like length, gas locker, or whether a bow thruster will be fitted, all having a bearing on the answers. Water is heavy and can make quite a difference to the trim on a narrowboat between full and empty. As mentioned earlier the gas locker drains can be problematic. Who is the builder if you don't mind me asking?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 11:10:44 GMT
A longer well-deck, rather than the usual 4 or 5ft in my mind looks better on a narrowboat anyway. That would make room for a bigger tank. You haven't given details about your new build, like length, gas locker, or whether a bow thruster will be fitted, all having a bearing on the answers. Water is heavy and can make quite a difference to the trim on a narrowboat between full and empty. As mentioned earlier the gas locker drains can be problematic. Who is the builder if you don't mind me asking? The longer well deck works well for us and even with the best part of a ton of water in the tank it does not make more than a couple of inches difference to the trim. This could be because the boat has no ballast apart from a few weights to level it side to side, it does however have a 15mm base plate😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 11:24:29 GMT
Assuming pumpout toilet installation. There would be an argument for installing a separate tank if there was space and using it just for the flushing. Totally separate the flushing of toilet from the other domestic consumers. As JohnV suggests a "bog audit" is needed. It's like a "power audit" but related to the throughput of the toilet. It would be quite cool to match the size of the flushing tank with the size of the holding tank so that one filled and the other emptied at the same rate. One would need to measure stool sizes to get an accurate representation. I got into this subject on canalworld years ago as I wondered if it would be feasible to have a "floor to ceiling" tank as part of a bulkhead. I think there is something bad with water pressure if you do this but it could be interesting. make one of the partitions for the bathroom out of steel and form a tank. If it was 2m high and 1m long and 300mm wide that would be a 600 litre tank and it would only use up 1ft of the cabin space where there is a partition anyway. As anybody who has worked in any hierarchical structure could tell you, shit rolls downhill. So your system would work up until the point the tanks were equally full. After that you would need a pump. I imagine quite a strong one (and an efficient non-return valve). But the 'buy a fricking big boat' solution would work too, as would the 'just wipe your nadgers with a flannel' motif. Cor it's good here. ETA I'll always conclude the 'Thetford' type solution is best but a side hatch in the toilet compartment would be good since this would obviate the need to hoick the cassette through the boat (as well as effectively dealing with noxious odours). I was not suggesting the tanks were connected !! I just meant that if the capacities were such that you did a pumpout at the same time as filling the flush tank it would be convenient. A lot of pumpout services have a water supply for rinsing. While you would not want this in your domestic water tank on account of contamination it would be ok in the toilet flushing tank. There would of course be a pump for the toilet and it would draw water from a float switch/solenoid valve cistern setup filled by a second pump by the flushing tank. [br It really makes sense to me to separate the toilet from the main domestic water supply and have a second tank for it. I have seen a boat which has a dark blue household toilet on a large holding tank. Shires aquamarine blue with low profile raised cistern. Complete with U bend. Options included flushing from the raised cistern which draws from a dedicated fresh water tank or just chucking a bucket of canal/river water down it. Works ok provided it is kept clean. White vinegar good for this. Does use a lot of water but what price a proper bog?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 11:24:32 GMT
A longer well-deck, rather than the usual 4 or 5ft in my mind looks better on a narrowboat anyway. That would make room for a bigger tank. You haven't given details about your new build, like length, gas locker, or whether a bow thruster will be fitted, all having a bearing on the answers. Water is heavy and can make quite a difference to the trim on a narrowboat between full and empty. As mentioned earlier the gas locker drains can be problematic. Who is the builder if you don't mind me asking? The longer well deck works well for us and even with the best part of a ton of water in the tank it does not make more than a couple of inches difference to the trim. This could be because the boat has no ballast apart from a few weights to level it side to side, it does however have a 15mm base plate😉 Best part of a ton? How big is the tank?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 11:32:13 GMT
My mum's narrow boat had a tonne of shit under the bed.
Used to heave the boat right over. Quite funny in a way but what was not funny is that it was a dump through toilet which means that the fumes escape every time it is operated.
Not nice at all.
That WAS a very toilet smelling boat !
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