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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2022 16:55:51 GMT
It’s a transport system designed to modernise our Victorian rail transport system. Maybe you’ve never been to any other country, but if you had you’d know that most other countries, especially but not necessarily those in Europe, have vastly superior rail transport systems compared to uk. Yes of course the nimby luddites dislike anything new being built, but unless we want to remain locked in a bygone age whilst the world and the uk population moves on, we have to create new infrastructure. If you look at the path of HS2 then yes some countryside has been altered and a bit lost, but the actual amount of land used up by a railway, compared to the total “country” landmass of the uk, is minuscule and negligible. As has been said (but I’ll repeat it for the benefit of those who don’t want to hear facts) the point of HS2 is not particularly to cut a few minutes off the time from London to Birmingham, it is to create new infrastructure / additional capacity that allows more people and freight to be carried on railways, which surely is a far greener and better way than doing it by car and lorry. A bit condescending but it is you I suppose. Yes, the European system is better. But ours was nearly as good when Branson launched his Pendolino fleet - what happened to that? If you don't know the answer you'll find it interesting. The rail system is now only affordable to Joe Ordinary if you book well in advance. You'll have to dig deep for an immediate ticket. And there is a two-tier system in place already - if you want the fast train it'll be even more. But you go on kidding yourself it's the people's rail system. I recall having to get a train from York to Aberdeen a couple of years ago. Middle of the day. It was absolutely rammed full and I had to stand for the first half of the journey. And it was a Virgin pendolino! So there is definitely a capacity issue. Yes I know York to Aberdeen isn’t going to be helped by HS2 but trains in general - pre-covid - were often full to capacity and beyond. As to Virgin’s demise, I suspect a big chunk of it was due to the crap, outdated and unreliable rail infrastructure.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 13, 2022 16:56:31 GMT
I would choose to see money spent where it is truly needed. Dogless is right for a change. Britain's railways are already fast enough, no-one needs to shave a few minutes off going from one shithole (London) to another even shittier shithole (Birmingham). The money could be spent more wisely buy importing billions more face masks from China, and 'vaccines' from India. After all, without these, we'd all be dead and wouldn't need railways in the first place! Of course, the money could be used in re-instating railways that have been closed - the trackbeds are still there. And making the lives of millions better with affordable and good quality housing, and letting the poor have enough money to feed and clothe themselves. What we have is rat-faced Rishi stealing £20/week off the poorest families. The man whose billionaire wife claimed furlough money from the UK Government. There's plenty of space on the railways right now for extra freight. And new railways could be built if there isn't. But a 'high-speed' track London-Birmingham isn't going to help much. It's main purpose is to put money in the accounts of those who donate generously to the Conservative Party.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 13, 2022 17:01:25 GMT
I would choose to see money spent where it is truly needed. Dogless is right for a change. Britain's railways are already fast enough, no-one needs to shave a few minutes off going from one shithole (London) to another even shittier shithole (Birmingham). The money could be spent more wisely buy importing billions more face masks from China, and 'vaccines' from India. After all, without these, we'd all be dead and wouldn't need railways in the first place! Of course, the money could be used in re-instating railways that have been closed - the trackbeds are still there. And making the lives of millions better with affordable and good quality housing, and letting the poor have enough money to feed and clothe themselves. What we have is rat-faced Rishi stealing £20/week off the poorest families. The man whose billionaire wife claimed furlough money from the UK Government. There's plenty of space on the railways right now for extra freight. And new railways could be built if there isn't. But a 'high-speed' track London-Birmingham isn't going to help much. It's main purpose is to put money in the accounts of those who donate generously to the Conservative Party. Jesus Christ on a bike ...... that is what HS2 is you dork ..... it leaves the ordinary tracks to handle the freight !!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:03:01 GMT
A bit condescending but it is you I suppose. Yes, the European system is better. But ours was nearly as good when Branson launched his Pendolino fleet - what happened to that? If you don't know the answer you'll find it interesting. The rail system is now only affordable to Joe Ordinary if you book well in advance. You'll have to dig deep for an immediate ticket. And there is a two-tier system in place already - if you want the fast train it'll be even more. But you go on kidding yourself it's the people's rail system. I recall having to get a train from York to Aberdeen a couple of years ago. Middle of the day. It was absolutely rammed full and I had to stand for the first half of the journey. And it was a Virgin pendolino! So there is definitely a capacity issue. Yes I know York to Aberdeen isn’t going to be helped by HS2 but trains in general - pre-covid - were often full to capacity and beyond. As to Virgin’s demise, I suspect a big chunk of it was due to the crap, outdated and unreliable rail infrastructure. Better rails equals faster and more frequent trains to be sure, but beardy Branson wasn't in charge of that. I suspect if he were things would have improved rapidly. And no, that wasn't the reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:07:07 GMT
Maybe it should have been called 2020s Rail rather than HS2.
I must admit I did think it was about faster 'High Speed' travel but I can see that it obviously isn't when throught through.
I bet a lot of people think that's what it's for.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:07:34 GMT
There's no need for the "bullshit" John. I was commenting on current government spending which includes the vanity project which is HS2. It remains a vanity project in my eyes, whilst we (as a society) tolerate working families who despite working all hours they can, and sometimes holding down two jobs, need to claim benefits and be supported by food banks to live. It remains a vanity project whilst we tolerate homelessness and its causes by simply turning away. I would choose to see money spent where it is truly needed. Rog Yes but let's face it, the countryside is very boring with not much more than fields and trees and animals to look at, and as boaters our cruising experience would be greatly visually enhanced if we had a few trains whizzing along at 200mph to look at. Would you be chuffed to bits ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:10:52 GMT
A lot of the cost is because the decision makers went for high speed, a new railway could have been built for far less if the high speed element was taken away. The objectioners would still be there though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:12:42 GMT
The thing about Vince's comments is that they are largely a riff on the 'most bad-taste joke ever' thing and as such are sometimes funny but also easy to ignore.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 13, 2022 17:15:34 GMT
Dogless is right for a change. Britain's railways are already fast enough, no-one needs to shave a few minutes off going from one shithole (London) to another even shittier shithole (Birmingham). The money could be spent more wisely buy importing billions more face masks from China, and 'vaccines' from India. After all, without these, we'd all be dead and wouldn't need railways in the first place! Of course, the money could be used in re-instating railways that have been closed - the trackbeds are still there. And making the lives of millions better with affordable and good quality housing, and letting the poor have enough money to feed and clothe themselves. What we have is rat-faced Rishi stealing £20/week off the poorest families. The man whose billionaire wife claimed furlough money from the UK Government. There's plenty of space on the railways right now for extra freight. And new railways could be built if there isn't. But a 'high-speed' track London-Birmingham isn't going to help much. It's main purpose is to put money in the accounts of those who donate generously to the Conservative Party. Jesus Christ on a bike ...... I am a dork Tell us something we don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 17:38:35 GMT
A lot of the cost is because the decision makers went for high speed, a new railway could have been built for far less if the high speed element was taken away. The objectioners would still be there though. HS2 is like going and buying one brand new tyre for your car. The whole of the UK's railways need 'tidying up' a bit. But I think they're generally fast enough, we went from King's Cross to York in just 2 hours three years back. Even Heathrow Airport hasn't got a proper railway station, just the Heathrow Express to Paddington, the slower Elizabeth Line to Hayes & Harlington, and the bumpy Underground - one whole hour to the city centre! Every bleedin' stop. Outdated Twat!
East Coast railway is a lot faster than the Weat Coast one - all the comments about fast travel on this thread have been about the East Coast railway... I wonder why...............
Heathrow is served by Crossrail/Elizabeth Line direct already...
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Post by thebfg on Jan 13, 2022 17:58:23 GMT
A lot of the cost is because the decision makers went for high speed, a new railway could have been built for far less if the high speed element was taken away. The objectioners would still be there though. HS2 is like going and buying one brand new tyre for your car. The whole of the UK's railways need 'tidying up' a bit. But I think they're generally fast enough, we went from King's Cross to York in just 2 hours three years back. Even Heathrow Airport hasn't got a proper railway station, just the Heathrow Express to Paddington, the slower Elizabeth Line to Hayes & Harlington, and the bumpy Underground - one whole hour to the city centre! Every bleedin' stop. Actually it's 15 minutes to Paddington by train with terminal 5 being 21 mins.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 18:04:15 GMT
Heathrow is served by Crossrail/Elizabeth Line direct already... I mentioned the Elizabeth Line. Didn't know Crosssrail goes to Heathrow ... but I don't think there are any intercity trains zooming off from LHR ... are there? Nope: Just looked it up - Crossrail = same old thing just using the Reading-Paddington line, taking tourists on a wonderful tour of Hayes & Harlington and all the way to the exciting Abbey Wood or Ilford where you'll get mugged. You just haven't a clue, have you! Where did you drag that map from?......
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Post by thebfg on Jan 13, 2022 18:10:56 GMT
Actually it's 15 minutes to Paddington by train with terminal 5 being 21 mins. Yes, I knew that (rip-off Heathrow Express) - but it's still an hour on the Underground. And it's 30 minutes to Paddington on the Elizabeth Line. But why moan about it being an hour when it's only a quarter of that, might as well say it takes four and a half hours if you walk. Point of order, Heathrow express is 5.50 advance ticket and the underground is six quid, faster and cheaper.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 18:43:14 GMT
There's no need for the "bullshit" John. I was commenting on current government spending which includes the vanity project which is HS2. It remains a vanity project in my eyes, whilst we (as a society) tolerate working families who despite working all hours they can, and sometimes holding down two jobs, need to claim benefits and be supported by food banks to live. It remains a vanity project whilst we tolerate homelessness and its causes by simply turning away. I would choose to see money spent where it is truly needed. Rog For as long as you continue to call it a “vanity project” you haven’t understood what is behind it. One reason why working families have to hold down 2 jobs and work lots of hours is that they felt entitled to have children regardless of whether they were capable of supporting them, and feel entitled to receive state support for however many kids they feel like having. To fix this problem I would propose compulsory birth control until one can demonstrate one has the resources to support children. Something in the water should do it, with the antidote given to those who meet the criteria. Do you ever read what you post ? Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2022 18:47:32 GMT
For as long as you continue to call it a “vanity project” you haven’t understood what is behind it. One reason why working families have to hold down 2 jobs and work lots of hours is that they felt entitled to have children regardless of whether they were capable of supporting them, and feel entitled to receive state support for however many kids they feel like having. To fix this problem I would propose compulsory birth control until one can demonstrate one has the resources to support children. Something in the water should do it, with the antidote given to those who meet the criteria. Do you ever read what you post ? Rog Yes
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