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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 9, 2022 19:46:02 GMT
I believe MuckArse did point out the red diesel for boats thing earlier. OK yeah the red diesel thing. Mind you it's now the same price as white diesel before the war but still. That would be the war that was caused largely by the eu's relentless eastward expansion then?
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 9, 2022 19:52:57 GMT
OK yeah the red diesel thing. Mind you it's now the same price as white diesel before the war but still. That would be the war that was caused largely by the eu's relentless eastward expansion then? In part yes. Of course the eu’s relentless eastward expansion was not forced upon the newly joined countries, it was as a result of their desire for western affiliation driven by a rejection of Russia’s transition to despotic dictatorship.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 19:57:10 GMT
OK yeah the red diesel thing. Mind you it's now the same price as white diesel before the war but still. That would be the war that was caused largely by the eu's relentless eastward expansion then? This isn't a thread about the causes of the Russo-Ukraine war, it's about the good points of Brexit, because all the other comments about Brexit in other threads to date have been about what Brexit didn't do. Focus, people, focus.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 9, 2022 20:23:57 GMT
Got a 'world beating' National Health Service which had to close its doors as soon as Bert and Doris got the sniffles.
Here's that catchy tune again:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 20:43:37 GMT
Those ladies sure could dance. But please fuck off again Ross.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 9, 2022 21:39:20 GMT
I was somewhat ambivalent about Brexit. But one of the “leave” arguments is was that the EU is a very undemocratic autocracy. Unelected bureaucrats decided what laws we need to save us from ourselves and all the European Parliament can do is say yea or nay. Our elected representatives can’t create any laws. None of which we voted to join, of course, it just sort of happened while we weren’t looking.
Now we are fully democratic and are completely at liberty to elect the representatives we deserve, such as Boris.
And then there was the assimilation of Eastern European countries who didn’t share our values nor our wealth. Which was a mistake.
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Post by JohnV on Jul 10, 2022 7:09:06 GMT
wherever cheap labour has been used to force wages to artificially low levels, prices will go up. In other words, things will actually start costing what they should. So price rises are actually a benefit. Well I confess I didn't think of that. It is counterproductive to drive wages down to such a low level that people are unwilling to spend the time and resources to train for those trades.
To use cheap imported labour to achieve such results is greed and is morally indefensible.
Unfair business management tactics will always, in the end, come back to bite the general population on the bum.
Unfortunately fat cats are only looking to make their pile and run, usually after raiding the pension pot as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 7:48:54 GMT
So price rises are actually a benefit. Well I confess I didn't think of that. It is counterproductive to drive wages down to such a low level that people are unwilling to spend the time and resources to train for those trades.
To use cheap imported labour to achieve such results is greed and is morally indefensible.
Unfair business management tactics will always, in the end, come back to bite the general population on the bum.
Unfortunately fat cats are only looking to make their pile and run, usually after raiding the pension pot as well.
In other news, the Welsh government are starting a pilot scheme to hand out £1600 per month to young care leavers. If this expands into a form of social credit scheme then how is this going to motivate our young people into taking up a trade? It also seems that most school leavers are pushed into university. In the old days many became apprentices and learnt a trade. Others took up technical jobs and gained qualifications through day release. It does seem to be government policy to import cheap labour and turn a blind eye to illegal immigration for the same reason. I think it's a hang over from the Thatcher government where she wanted to turn this country into the banking, investment and management centre of the world. It was all about money. However the very countries that make things for us don't need us anymore. We have lost the ability to make things and do things for ourselves and left us in a position where as an island it may be very difficult to be self sufficient. On a plus side, we still have plenty of coal reserves due to Thatcher shutting down the coal mines. Pity we can't eat coal...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 11:44:37 GMT
Not many actual good points so far...well it's early doors I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 11:54:38 GMT
It is counterproductive to drive wages down to such a low level that people are unwilling to spend the time and resources to train for those trades.
To use cheap imported labour to achieve such results is greed and is morally indefensible.
Unfair business management tactics will always, in the end, come back to bite the general population on the bum.
Unfortunately fat cats are only looking to make their pile and run, usually after raiding the pension pot as well.
We have lost the ability to make things and do things for ourselves and left us in a position where as an island it may be very difficult to be self sufficient. Newsflash: we never were (unless you include the feudal system).
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Post by JohnV on Jul 10, 2022 11:58:34 GMT
Not many actual good points so far...well it's early doors I suppose. getting out of an autocratic non elected superstate is number 1, 2, 3, 4, and on up to 125
Not being bound by continent wide regulations that have absolutely no relevance to an Island nation
getting out of a group (that thanks to Labour would have included us) is shortly going to be governed by majority decisions with no national veto
getting out of a group that is hell bent on certain fiscal policies that we, although not included, would be expected to pick up part of the tab.
getting out of being controlled by a parliament that is unable to introduce any new laws and is only able to pass or dismiss those presented by an unelected commision.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 12:03:27 GMT
We have lost the ability to make things and do things for ourselves and left us in a position where as an island it may be very difficult to be self sufficient. Newsflash: we never were (unless you include the feudal system). We used to make loads of stuff. If you mean plastic crap we don't really need then you may have a point. We were pretty self sufficient in Victorian times (if you were rich!). One very good point of Brexit. We are no longer controlled by unelected bureaucrats....oh hang on...we still have the UN, WHO and WEF biting at our ankles. Mind you that would be far worse if we were still in the EU. Maybe we've managed to keep away from globalism for a few more years...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 12:05:52 GMT
Not many actual good points so far...well it's early doors I suppose. getting out of an autocratic non elected superstate is number 1, 2, 3, 4, and on up to 125
Not being bound by continent wide regulations that have absolutely no relevance to an Island nation
getting out of a group (that thanks to Labour would have included us) is shortly going to be governed by majority decisions with no national veto
getting out of a group that is hell bent on certain fiscal policies that we, although not included, would be expected to pick up part of the tab.
getting out of being controlled by a parliament that is unable to introduce any new laws and is only able to pass or dismiss those presented by an unelected commision.
See earlier point. Trouble is this shit sounds great but hasn't resulted in any tangible positive so far (unless you like Yorkie bars).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 12:08:44 GMT
Newsflash: we never were (unless you include the feudal system). We used to make loads of stuff. with shit imported from somewhere else. And then all the furriners learned how to make stuff themselves for cheaper and better. Brief history lesson: Britain had the edge on new tech for ages. This allowed us, amongst other things, to re-take Khartoum from the fuzzies because we had Maxim guns and they didn't. But by 1914 every cunt had one.
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Post by JohnV on Jul 10, 2022 12:30:58 GMT
getting out of an autocratic non elected superstate is number 1, 2, 3, 4, and on up to 125
Not being bound by continent wide regulations that have absolutely no relevance to an Island nation
getting out of a group (that thanks to Labour would have included us) is shortly going to be governed by majority decisions with no national veto
getting out of a group that is hell bent on certain fiscal policies that we, although not included, would be expected to pick up part of the tab.
getting out of being controlled by a parliament that is unable to introduce any new laws and is only able to pass or dismiss those presented by an unelected commision.
See earlier point. Trouble is this shit sounds great but hasn't resulted in any tangible positive so far (unless you like Yorkie bars). most sensible people never expected to any instant improvements.
I have said all along that things will be tough to start with.
The long term is where the advantages will occur (providing people stop trying to talk the situation down)
When we joined (without a referendum) the OEEC in the early 60's, we were told there was no plan to grow a European super state, it was all scare mongering
(Why didn't we listen to the Right Honorable Anthony Neil Wedgewood Benn as he was then)
The referendum in 1973 was "do you want to remain in the Economic Free Trade Area" (not Federal Europe)
We had by then, thanks to the top ranks of both main political parties, sold our Commonwealth trade partners down the river.
In other words many of us although reluctant, felt we had burned our bridges and if there was (as promised) no loss of Soveregnity then we had better stay.
Basicly we were sold a pack of lies.
New Zealand and Australia were badly hit and had to go out and hunt new markets which they did.
For them although the first few years were very hard, both have thrived and are better for being forced to look for new opportunities.
We need to do what they did but no one with a grain of sense would expect it to be quick or easy.
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