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Ice.
Jul 15, 2022 17:36:54 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 15, 2022 17:36:54 GMT
I’d say she’s right. There are two factors at play, one is the latent heat of freezing ie the heat energy that has to be extracted from water at 0c to make ice at 0c. Then there is the normal thermal mass of something, so if you put a stone into your drink that was at 0C, it wouldn’t cool the drink anything like as much as if you put a stone in that was at -15c. We always keep ice in the freezer, whereas the ice making machine at the gliding club which chucks out ice at 0c, always disappoints. Where’s Jeff when we need a bag of ice? Just back from Markies with 2 bags of Super Ice. You can have one if you care to pop round… |
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Ice.
Jul 15, 2022 17:39:44 GMT
Post by naughtyfox on Jul 15, 2022 17:39:44 GMT
Where we live the ice gets down to -31 Centigrade. We keep stuff in our freezer to keep it warm.
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Ice.
Jul 15, 2022 19:51:24 GMT
Post by JohnV on Jul 15, 2022 19:51:24 GMT
I told you the Arctic does strange things to peoples Psyche
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Ice.
Jul 15, 2022 20:07:01 GMT
Post by patty on Jul 15, 2022 20:07:01 GMT
Can anyone tell me whether ice gets colder when left longer in a freezer?  ?? |
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 6:29:39 GMT
Post by Jim on Jul 16, 2022 6:29:39 GMT
I'm getting there ... or you are  Rog Aren't you now past it? |
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 10:45:54 GMT
Post by bodger on Jul 16, 2022 10:45:54 GMT
'ccording to Qi there is no such thing as regelation like wot I wuz tort at skule. we were tort that wivout it ice-skating would be impracticull.
just saying .............................
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 10:54:02 GMT
patty likes this
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 10:54:02 GMT
I just googled the original question "[Does] ice gets colder when left longer in a freezer?" and got this answer:
When you put the water in the freezer, it first cools down to its freezing point, then freezes, then keeps cooling to the temperature of the freezer. Once it's been in the freezer long enough to get very close to the freezer temperature, leaving it in longer won't make any difference.
So yes, it does.
ETA also freezers are more economic and effective to run if they are full due to the mass of frozen material present. So if you are running out of freezer food it would appear to be a good thing to put in as many freezer blocks as possible. So make hay ice while the sun shines.
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 11:13:40 GMT
Post by bodger on Jul 16, 2022 11:13:40 GMT
I just googled the original question "[Does] ice gets colder when left longer in a freezer?" and got this answer: When you put the water in the freezer, it first cools down to its freezing point, then freezes, then keeps cooling to the temperature of the freezer. Once it's been in the freezer long enough to get very close to the freezer temperature, leaving it in longer won't make any difference. So yes, it does. ETA also freezers are more economic and effective to run if they are full due to the mass of frozen material present. So if you are running out of freezer food it would appear to be a good thing to put in as many freezer blocks as possible. So make hay ice while the sun shines.
shirley u didn't reely need to resort to google to establish what is obvious?
I must say that I thought the original post was tongue in cheek so to speak.
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 11:17:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 11:17:40 GMT
I must say that I thought the original post was not tongue in cheek so to speak.
Personally I rely on the Oracle for all the answers but in future I will defer to you.
#askbodger
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 12:35:15 GMT
Post by Jim on Jul 16, 2022 12:35:15 GMT
bodger, would you know what the difference in certification etc is between a boat with a pleasure craft licence and a commercial one in respect of the actions needed to remove it from the waterway if all the boxes aren't ticked and due requirements met?
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 18:02:59 GMT
Jim likes this
Post by bodger on Jul 16, 2022 18:02:59 GMT
bodger , would you know what the difference in certification etc is between a boat with a pleasure craft licence and a commercial one in respect of the actions needed to remove it from the waterway if all the boxes aren't ticked and due requirements met?
yes
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 18:19:45 GMT
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 16, 2022 18:19:45 GMT
No but an odd thing is that warm water freezes faster than cold water. That's called the Mpemba effect but in fact this is ghost science which cannot be proven under controlled conditions and which would be in breach of both the first law of thermodynamics and Newton's Law of Cooling. |
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 18:36:21 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 16, 2022 18:36:21 GMT
No but an odd thing is that warm water freezes faster than cold water. That's called the Mpemba effect but in fact this is ghost science which cannot be proven under controlled conditions and which would be in breach of both the first law of thermodynamics and Newton's Law of Cooling. No. The first law of TD just says energy cannot be created or destroyed. No-one is saying that less energy has to be extracted from hot water vs cold water to make it feeeze, that would be daft. It is about the rate of transfer of energy from the water to the freezer (or other “source of cold”). Newton’s law of cooling is quite simplistic (rate of cooling proportional to temperature difference) and presumes a solid with no thermal circulation. It doesn’t for example take into consideration what happens to the object’s interior which is “insulated” from its exterior according to its thermal conductivity. The effect is of course counted-intuitive but then so is quantum physics and relativity. I think the scientific consensus is that under some circumstances the theory may be correct with water, due to water’s weird density vs temperature profile, the fact that water doesn’t necessarily freeze at zero C (as I know from flying, you get liquid water in clouds at -15c or below sometimes), and probably something else. |
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 18:57:43 GMT
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 16, 2022 18:57:43 GMT
That's called the Mpemba effect but in fact this is ghost science which cannot be proven under controlled conditions and which would be in breach of both the first law of thermodynamics and Newton's Law of Cooling. No. The first law of TD just says energy cannot be created or destroyed. No-one is saying that less energy has to be extracted from hot water vs cold water to make it feeeze, that would be daft. It is about the rate of transfer of energy from the water to the freezer (or other “source of cold”). Newton’s law of cooling is quite simplistic (rate of cooling proportional to temperature difference) and presumes a solid with no thermal circulation. It doesn’t for example take into consideration what happens to the object’s interior which is “insulated” from its exterior according to its thermal conductivity. The effect is of course counted-intuitive but then so is quantum physics and relativity. I think the scientific consensus is that under some circumstances the theory may be correct with water, due to water’s weird density vs temperature profile, the fact that water doesn’t necessarily freeze at zero C (as I know from flying, you get liquid water in clouds at -15c or below sometimes), and probably something else. |
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Ice.
Jul 16, 2022 19:04:12 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jul 16, 2022 19:04:12 GMT
No. The first law of TD just says energy cannot be created or destroyed. No-one is saying that less energy has to be extracted from hot water vs cold water to make it feeeze, that would be daft. It is about the rate of transfer of energy from the water to the freezer (or other “source of cold”). Newton’s law of cooling is quite simplistic (rate of cooling proportional to temperature difference) and presumes a solid with no thermal circulation. It doesn’t for example take into consideration what happens to the object’s interior which is “insulated” from its exterior according to its thermal conductivity. The effect is of course counted-intuitive but then so is quantum physics and relativity. I think the scientific consensus is that under some circumstances the theory may be correct with water, due to water’s weird density vs temperature profile, the fact that water doesn’t necessarily freeze at zero C (as I know from flying, you get liquid water in clouds at -15c or below sometimes), and probably something else. Yes. If you read to the end you will see that the article is far from conclusive. |
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