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Post by kris on Mar 17, 2023 9:41:32 GMT
I didn’t see it but if it was a copy of what Tony posted above, it would have breached the “no personal insults” philosophy of TUB. I can’t imagine him posting anything without a personal insult.
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Post by ianali on Mar 17, 2023 10:32:43 GMT
There's nothing to fear from the Trent, . . provided the standard C&RT rubbish passage planning/timing advice is ignored and replaced with something that avoids entry into the sidelocks at Stockwith and Keadby at the worst possible times - ie. late on the Ebb with next to no depth of water in the lock tails - or involves passing high risk locations such as Marton Rack, and others, at around local High Water. Post up the days you're going to be on the river below Cromwell, when the time comes, and I'll tell you when you should be getting underway so as to minimize any chances of grounding anywhere at or near local HW on a falling tide, . . and to give you the easiest possible conditions in which to go in at Stockwith or Keadby. There is in fact something about the lower (tidal) Trent that should definitely be on the 'to fear' list, . . it's misleading, highly irresponsible comments or opinions from stupid people who, after one or two short trips on it, think they know enough about the lower tidal Trent to start dishing out ill-informed but reasurring sounding advice about it. Two people, ianali and telemachus, with their joint vast experience of, as far as I know, a total of three outings on the Trent lowside of Cromwell between them, . . took it on themselves to assure quaysider (on TheUnstableBar) that the lower tidal reaches were - quote - "no big deal", . . which is a pretty stupid and irresponsible thing to tell someone else whose very limited experience and knowledge of the lower Trent is about on a par with their own. The standard rubbish advice from the new generation of C&RT know-nothing so-called lock keepers usually results in the recipients of their crap advice passing along Marton Rack at or around local HW, and the low end of Knaith Rack/West Burton/Cheese House shallows soon afterwards. Anyone even slightly out of the deepwater channel at around those times at any of those places in particular, . . is quite likely to find that grounding around there with a narrow canal boat turns out to be quite a 'big deal' after all. Especially if there's very little fresh in the river, . . and the tides are biggish Springs, . . big enough in those circumstances to push a sizeable Aegre up well above Gainsborough. My efforts to convey this warning via the pages of TheUnstableBar last night were zapped and obliterated within minutes of posting, . . in true CWDF style. Not really the sort of behaviour you'd hope for from the Admin staff of a genuine boating forum, . . is it ! You really are a twat Tony.
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Post by on Mar 17, 2023 11:20:09 GMT
Is this news?
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Post by kris on Mar 17, 2023 11:26:36 GMT
No, but beat him with his own stick. Repetition.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Mar 17, 2023 19:57:58 GMT
There is in fact something about the lower (tidal) Trent that should definitely be on the 'to fear' list, . . it's misleading, highly irresponsible comments or opinions from stupid people who, after one or two short trips on it, think they know enough about the lower tidal Trent to start dishing out ill-informed but reasurring sounding advice about it. Two people, ianali and telemachus, with their joint vast experience of, as far as I know, a total of three outings on the Trent lowside of Cromwell between them, . . took it on themselves to assure quaysider (on TheUnstableBar) that the lower tidal reaches were - quote - "no big deal", . . which is a pretty stupid and irresponsible thing to tell someone else whose very limited experience and knowledge of the lower Trent is about on a par with their own. The standard rubbish advice from the new generation of C&RT know-nothing so-called lock keepers usually results in the recipients of their crap advice passing along Marton Rack at or around local HW, and the low end of Knaith Rack/West Burton/Cheese House shallows soon afterwards. Anyone even slightly out of the deepwater channel at around those times at any of those places in particular, . . is quite likely to find that grounding around there with a narrow canal boat turns out to be quite a 'big deal' after all. Especially if there's very little fresh in the river, . . and the tides are biggish Springs, . . big enough in those circumstances to push a sizeable Aegre up well above Gainsborough. My efforts to convey this warning via the pages of TheUnstableBar last night were zapped and obliterated within minutes of posting, . . in true CWDF style. Not really the sort of behaviour you'd hope for from the Admin staff of a genuine boating forum, . . is it ! You really are a twat Tony. Being well thought of by a stupid arrogant cunt like you would give me cause for some really serious concerns, . . thank you very much for the timely reassurance.
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Post by ianali on Mar 17, 2023 23:20:33 GMT
You really are a twat Tony. Being well thought of by a stupid arrogant cunt like you would give me cause for some really serious concerns, . . thank you very much for the timely reassurance. Top marks for bad language Tony.
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Post by Mother Dunkley on Mar 17, 2023 23:23:39 GMT
Being well thought of by a stupid arrogant cunt like you would give me cause for some really serious concerns, . . thank you very much for the timely reassurance. Top marks for bad language Tony. You leave my Tony alone.
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Post by ianali on Mar 17, 2023 23:33:22 GMT
Top marks for bad language Tony. You leave my Tony alone. I suspect he is alone to often. I had thought of him as a decent bloke who I’d chatted with on a very friendly basis over the years. Seems I was mistaken. Ross from here is the same, thought we got on but apparently not. I find this odd.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 17, 2023 23:35:17 GMT
I suspect he is alone to often. I had thought of him as a decent bloke who I’d chatted with on a very friendly basis over the years. Seems I was mistaken. Ross from here is the same, thought we got on but apparently not. I find this odd. Ross and Tony are New Best Mates. They have common ground.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Mar 18, 2023 19:01:06 GMT
There is in fact something about the lower (tidal) Trent that should definitely be on the 'to fear' list, . . it's misleading, highly irresponsible comments or opinions from stupid people who, after one or two short trips on it, think they know enough about the lower tidal Trent to start dishing out ill-informed but reasurring sounding advice about it. Two people, ianali and telemachus, with their joint vast experience of, as far as I know, a total of three outings on the Trent lowside of Cromwell between them, . . took it on themselves to assure quaysider (on TheUnstableBar) that the lower tidal reaches were - quote - "no big deal", . . which is a pretty stupid and irresponsible thing to tell someone else whose very limited experience and knowledge of the lower Trent is about on a par with their own. The standard rubbish advice from the new generation of C&RT know-nothing so-called lock keepers usually results in the recipients of their crap advice passing along Marton Rack at or around local HW, and the low end of Knaith Rack/West Burton/Cheese House shallows soon afterwards. Anyone even slightly out of the deepwater channel at around those times at any of those places in particular, . . is quite likely to find that grounding around there with a narrow canal boat turns out to be quite a 'big deal' after all. Especially if there's very little fresh in the river, . . and the tides are biggish Springs, . . big enough in those circumstances to push a sizeable Aegre up well above Gainsborough. My efforts to convey this warning via the pages of TheUnstableBar last night were zapped and obliterated within minutes of posting, . . in true CWDF style. Not really the sort of behaviour you'd hope for from the Admin staff of a genuine boating forum, . . is it ! It’s certainly true that I have very limited experience of the tidal Trent. However I based my comment not just on my personal experience but on the fact that hundreds, maybe thousands, of such trips are made each year using the CRT strategy, none (or virtually none) of them has ended in a serious problem (sinking or other major damage). A few people have gone aground but been refloated later which is not really a massive deal. Those people failed to carry out basic common sense by eg cutting corners or not reviewing the route on the Boating Association maps or not observing the signage. Perhaps I am not aware of events which have caused serious problems in the areas you mention, but unless you can provide evidence to the contrary I am going to assume that these risks, whilst definitely extant, are easily avoided by taking the most basic of precautions and generic boating practice, especially in a narrowboat drawing only 2 1/2 feet or so. There have in fact been numerous serious or potentially serious incidents involving grounded pleasure craft on the Trent below Cromwell, . . fortuately none resulting loss of life or boat, . . mainly due to sheer dumb luck ! By far the most serious incident, on Marton Rack, did come very close to costing a life on one occasion. The deepwater channel at Marton is relatively narrow, with steep-to edges and a hard marl bottom to either bank that bares out - sometimes drying 2-3', or more, at local LW. This feature of the river bed there never presented any sort danger for deep draught commercials on the Ebb because they physicallly couldn't stray very far out of the deep channel at all, . . but it is a serious hazard to shallow draught pleasure craft that can do so, because they can then ground on the Ebb, precariously close to the steep-to edges, with the attendant risk of toppling off the hard marl edge into the deep channel as the tide ebbs away. The standard BWB/C&RT crap lock keepers advice on departure times for a Torksey to Stockwith or Keadby passage almost invariably results in the pleasure craft they're advising transiting Marton Rack somewhere near the top of the tide -- just exactly when good practice, common sense, and an awareness of the potential danger dictates that they should NOT be doing so. It's worth noting at this point that the standard C&RT advice and passage scheduling for pleasure craft making passage between Tarleton (L&L Rufford Arm) and the Savick Brook/Ribble Link (Preston) also puts these craft in harm's way in the vicinity of the trickiest parts (drying areas of river bed and shoals) of the rivers Douglas and Ribble, when rounding Asland Light, at or very close to local HW, . . again, just exactly when they SHOULD NOT be there.
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 18, 2023 20:53:52 GMT
The River Trent.
Does it have its own monster?
'Tressie' ?
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 18, 2023 23:42:25 GMT
It’s certainly true that I have very limited experience of the tidal Trent. However I based my comment not just on my personal experience but on the fact that hundreds, maybe thousands, of such trips are made each year using the CRT strategy, none (or virtually none) of them has ended in a serious problem (sinking or other major damage). A few people have gone aground but been refloated later which is not really a massive deal. Those people failed to carry out basic common sense by eg cutting corners or not reviewing the route on the Boating Association maps or not observing the signage. Perhaps I am not aware of events which have caused serious problems in the areas you mention, but unless you can provide evidence to the contrary I am going to assume that these risks, whilst definitely extant, are easily avoided by taking the most basic of precautions and generic boating practice, especially in a narrowboat drawing only 2 1/2 feet or so. There have in fact been numerous serious or potentially serious incidents involving grounded pleasure craft on the Trent below Cromwell, . . fortuately none resulting loss of life or boat, . . mainly due to sheer dumb luck ! By far the most serious incident, on Marton Rack, did come very close to costing a life on one occasion. The deepwater channel at Marton is relatively narrow, with steep-to edges and a hard marl bottom to either bank that bares out - sometimes drying 2-3', or more, at local LW. This feature of the river bed there never presented any sort danger for deep draught commercials on the Ebb because they physicallly couldn't stray very far out of the deep channel at all, . . but it is a serious hazard to shallow draught pleasure craft that can do so, because they can then ground on the Ebb, precariously close to the steep-to edges, with the attendant risk of toppling off the hard marl edge into the deep channel as the tide ebbs away. The standard BWB/C&RT crap lock keepers advice on departure times for a Torksey to Stockwith or Keadby passage almost invariably results in the pleasure craft they're advising transiting Marton Rack somewhere near the top of the tide -- just exactly when good practice, common sense, and an awareness of the potential danger dictates that they should NOT be doing so. It's worth noting at this point that the standard C&RT advice and passage scheduling for pleasure craft making passage between Tarleton ( L&L Rufford Arm) and Savick Brook/Ribble Link (Preston) also puts these craft in the vicinity of the trickiest parts of the rivers Douglas and Ribble, rounding Asland Light, at or very close to local HW, . . again, just exactly when they SHOULD NOT be there. So as I said the risk is definitely present but sufficiently remote that it has never actually happened. Whereas other causes of loss of boat have actually happened quite often (cilling in a lock being the most obvious) and so this is why I say that the tidal Trent is no big deal for anyone with a bit of common sense and boating experience. The channel at Marton is well marked on the Boating Association chart so anyone with a modicum of sense - in possession of the charts and a basic ability to read them - can easily stay in the channel. That said, and bearing in mind your point that the CRT way of doing things is to arrive there at high water, and if there is only 2 or 3’ of drying out at low water, what is the actual depth over the rack at high water? Variable obviously, but perhaps there is mostly enough to float the average modern narrowboat (2 to 2.5’ draft) and this might be why even numpties who can’t read a chart or use common sense, don’t come to grief. Obviously I do agree with your general point that local HW is a really bad time to go aground, but on the other hand if it is quite easy to avoid going aground in the first place, the risk is theoretical only. So in summary, whilst hazards do exist, a sensible, competent and relatively experienced skipper such as Quaysider, in a modern shallow drafted boat, is highly unlikely to come to grief on the tidal Trent, hence my original comment that you object to. Having watched other boaters putting their boats in places on the tidal Trent that made me cringe, they nevertheless got away with it so there must be plenty of scope for getting it quite a bit wrong. Only the numptiest of numpties are going to come to grief.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 19, 2023 7:35:28 GMT
There have in fact been numerous serious or potentially serious incidents involving grounded pleasure craft on the Trent below Cromwell, . . fortuately none resulting loss of life or boat, . . mainly due to sheer dumb luck ! By far the most serious incident, on Marton Rack, did come very close to costing a life on one occasion. The deepwater channel at Marton is relatively narrow, with steep-to edges and a hard marl bottom to either bank that bares out - sometimes drying 2-3', or more, at local LW. This feature of the river bed there never presented any sort danger for deep draught commercials on the Ebb because they physicallly couldn't stray very far out of the deep channel at all, . . but it is a serious hazard to shallow draught pleasure craft that can do so, because they can then ground on the Ebb, precariously close to the steep-to edges, with the attendant risk of toppling off the hard marl edge into the deep channel as the tide ebbs away. The standard BWB/C&RT crap lock keepers advice on departure times for a Torksey to Stockwith or Keadby passage almost invariably results in the pleasure craft they're advising transiting Marton Rack somewhere near the top of the tide -- just exactly when good practice, common sense, and an awareness of the potential danger dictates that they should NOT be doing so. It's worth noting at this point that the standard C&RT advice and passage scheduling for pleasure craft making passage between Tarleton ( L&L Rufford Arm) and Savick Brook/Ribble Link (Preston) also puts these craft in the vicinity of the trickiest parts of the rivers Douglas and Ribble, rounding Asland Light, at or very close to local HW, . . again, just exactly when they SHOULD NOT be there. So as I said the risk is definitely present but sufficiently remote that it has never actually happened. Whereas other causes of loss of boat have actually happened quite often (cilling in a lock being the most obvious) I can think of an even more obvious way to lose a boat.
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Post by on Mar 19, 2023 7:45:40 GMT
Might this be a suitable juncture at which to introduce the Ribble Link into the discussion?
I'm sure there must be some expert and knowledgeable opinions on how it is managed by the CRT.
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Post by Aloysius on Mar 19, 2023 8:24:00 GMT
Twat. Twattiest twat amongst twats.
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