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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 3, 2016 18:25:31 GMT
My engine is the little Vetus 2 cylinder, m2.04. It runs fine, little smoke, no unusual noises. There is a slight problem though:
During the warmer months the engine starts fine. From around now though, until it warms up again, it doesn't start properly from cold. However much throttle I give it it just ticks over on very low revs. This lasts for up to a minute until the revs pick up, the engine then runs as it should.
Any ideas what might be causing this?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 3, 2016 18:33:22 GMT
I'd hazard a guess that with the engine, engine oil and diesel all being that much colder, it's taking longer from cold for the pistons, cylinders and valves to seal and provide adequate compression. Unless you actually have problems getting the engine started, I'd ignore it, although it might help to chuck a bottle of 2 stroke oil into a full tank of diesel.
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Post by PaulG2 on Nov 3, 2016 18:43:32 GMT
My 1982 Peugeot diesel car used to do that when I suddenly went from mild weather to very cold weather. It was the diesel fuel getting cold and thick that did it. Peugeot recommended adding a couple gallons of kerosene to the 16 gallon tank to mitigate the problem. I seem to recall that diesel fuel is reformulated a tad as the weather gets colder to aid against this problem.
IDK if that's your problem, but it would be simple enough to warm your fuel lines with a hair drier sometime and see what happens when you start it then.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 3, 2016 18:50:08 GMT
My 1982 Peugeot diesel car used to do that when I suddenly went from mild weather to very cold weather. It was the diesel fuel getting cold and thick that did it. Peugeot recommended adding a couple gallons of kerosene to the 16 gallon tank to mitigate the problem. I seem to recall that diesel fuel is reformulated a tad as the weather gets colder to aid against this problem. IDK if that's your problem, but it would be simple enough to warm your fuel lines with a hair drier sometime and see what happens when you start it then. I imagine it is, in the Summer my engine starts on the key and runs perfectly from the get-go, this time of year it spins for 3-4 seconds and runs lumpily for 5-10 seconds, in February it might need cranking over for 20 seconds before it reluctantly splutters into life and covers the entire county with a pall of white smoke. That's just what old diesel engines do.
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Post by tonyqj on Nov 3, 2016 19:02:33 GMT
My 1982 Peugeot diesel car used to do that when I suddenly went from mild weather to very cold weather. It was the diesel fuel getting cold and thick that did it. Peugeot recommended adding a couple gallons of kerosene to the 16 gallon tank to mitigate the problem. I seem to recall that diesel fuel is reformulated a tad as the weather gets colder to aid against this problem. IDK if that's your problem, but it would be simple enough to warm your fuel lines with a hair drier sometime and see what happens when you start it then. I imagine it is, in the Summer my engine starts on the key and runs perfectly from the get-go, this time of year it spins for 3-4 seconds and runs lumpily for 5-10 seconds, in February it might need cranking over for 20 seconds before it reluctantly splutters into life and covers the entire county with a pall of white smoke. That's just what old diesel engines do. Pretty obvious question but your glow plugs are ok aren't they?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 3, 2016 19:10:20 GMT
I imagine it is, in the Summer my engine starts on the key and runs perfectly from the get-go, this time of year it spins for 3-4 seconds and runs lumpily for 5-10 seconds, in February it might need cranking over for 20 seconds before it reluctantly splutters into life and covers the entire county with a pall of white smoke. That's just what old diesel engines do. Pretty obvious question but your glow plugs are ok aren't they? I've not put a multimeter across them but they were replaced shortly before I bought the boat- I have the invoice for the work- and there is a large current drain when I put the ignition switch into the glow plug position. I tend to think that all old diesel engines take longer to start as the temperature drops and oil and diesel become more viscous. Back in the day, it was an enormous effort to get a fleet of trucks out of the yard on a Monday morning in Winter.
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Post by tonyqj on Nov 3, 2016 20:16:59 GMT
Pretty obvious question but your glow plugs are ok aren't they? I've not put a multimeter across them but they were replaced shortly before I bought the boat- I have the invoice for the work- and there is a large current drain when I put the ignition switch into the glow plug position. I tend to think that all old diesel engines take longer to start as the temperature drops and oil and diesel become more viscous. Back in the day, it was an enormous effort to get a fleet of trucks out of the yard on a Monday morning in Winter. I remember seeing long lines of trucks in lay-byes all with little bonfires under their fuel tanks some years ago.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 3, 2016 20:27:10 GMT
I've not put a multimeter across them but they were replaced shortly before I bought the boat- I have the invoice for the work- and there is a large current drain when I put the ignition switch into the glow plug position. I tend to think that all old diesel engines take longer to start as the temperature drops and oil and diesel become more viscous. Back in the day, it was an enormous effort to get a fleet of trucks out of the yard on a Monday morning in Winter. I remember seeing long lines of trucks in lay-byes all with little bonfires under their fuel tanks some years ago. I spent four Winters driving in Russia in mid-Winter, and we regularly had to light bonfires beneath the diesel tank to de-wax the diesel, despite the trucks having fuel heaters. I imagine many narrowboats have starting issues at this time of year as they are still running on Summer diesel, diesel sold in Winter does have an anti-waxing agent added.
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Post by flatdog on Nov 4, 2016 6:44:48 GMT
Indirect injection (or precombustion chamber) engine's are prone to bad starting when it's cold. But it shouldn't take excessive cranking in order for it to start. Owners knowing the engine struggles when cold can overheat the glowplugs and reduce their performance even after 1 prolonged heating spell. Your glow plugs need to be in top condition for better coldstart results.
It's cheaper to replace the glowplugs regularly than a starter motor or battery.
My bodge from years ago, I had a Perkins 6354 fail to start and with the battery becoming weak, I took the paper air filter off, with the engine cranking on it's last legs I pointed a plumbers blowtorch into the induction and she started straight away - a get out of jail bodge if you like.
These days a can of quickstart lives in my toolbox as backup too.
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Post by bodger on Nov 4, 2016 8:22:46 GMT
Temperatures around 5 to 10C make the fuel a bit more viscous.
On construction projects in the UK, the Caterpillar engines took as much as 30 seconds to start in the winter months, and blew off white smoke for a few minutes (unvaporised fuel?).
When we had a fleet of LR Discos in the Turkish mountains we had to leave the engines running all night if the temperature was below minus 10C, because the fuel went waxy if not kept recirculated and the fuel pump would then be ineffective.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 8:28:28 GMT
Indirect injection (or precombustion chamber) engine's are prone to bad starting when it's cold. But it shouldn't take excessive cranking in order for it to start. Owners knowing the engine struggles when cold can overheat the glowplugs and reduce their performance even after 1 prolonged heating spell. Your glow plugs need to be in top condition for better coldstart results. It's cheaper to replace the glowplugs regularly than a starter motor or battery. My bodge from years ago, I had a Perkins 6354 fail to start and with the battery becoming weak, I took the paper air filter off, with the engine cranking on it's last legs I pointed a plumbers blowtorch into the induction and she started straight away - a get out of jail bodge if you like. These days a can of quickstart lives in my toolbox as backup too. Not so much a bodge. It's how I start my RN when it's under 5 deg. Some people try overfueling or/and turning it over for a long time but giving it some warm air is instant and more forgiving on the stater motor.
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Post by Jim on Nov 4, 2016 13:24:12 GMT
I used to put a gallon of petrol in my full diesel tank, in years before it was common practice to put an additive in diesel at the pump.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 4, 2016 15:17:51 GMT
"although it might help to chuck a bottle of 2 stroke oil into a full tank of diesel."
I have been asking about this and have sort of come to the conclusion that diesel engines just need diesel, and nothing added to it. How's the pre-heater? I have been told you cannot start a diesel engine 'on full throttle' with the cables as they are set on fully open anyway. They are supposed to run slow and pick up their own speed, and you should not apply load until the engine is warm (say, 10 minutes from starting?)
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 4, 2016 15:23:02 GMT
Put a pan under your engine with some red glowing coals from the stove, leave for half an hour Those with 240v - just stick a fan-heater in the engine room for a while.
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Post by flatdog on Nov 4, 2016 16:07:09 GMT
"although it might help to chuck a bottle of 2 stroke oil into a full tank of diesel." I have been told you cannot start a diesel engine 'on full throttle' with the cables as they are set on fully open anyway. They are supposed to run slow and pick up their own speed, and you should not apply load until the engine is warm (say, 10 minutes from starting?) It's definately not a good idea to let a diesel engine warm up slowly. The warm up period is when the engine has the most friction resulting in increased wear - longer warm up = increased wear, shorter warm up = less wear. It is also not a good idea to run an engine without it's thermostat fitted as it will not attain the correct running temp = increased wear. Logically, the shorter warm up period the less wear on components. Certainly it's not a good idea to be thrashing the engine as soon as it fires, but better for it to start working shortly after oil pressure has been attained. Plus it's not a good idea to run a diesel at idle speed for long = risk of glazing the bores which will reduce starting performance and increase of oil consumption.
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