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Post by sabcat on May 23, 2016 17:57:39 GMT
Nicola Sturgeon is now saying that the remain bullshit spouted by the inners is having a negative effect ie people can see through it and will vote to leave! long may it continue and we vote to leave on a landslide result!! Sturgeons Party are woefully out of step with their voters over Europe Peter,with two thirds in favour of Brexit. Jim Sillars a leading SNP member has actually questioned publicly last week whether the SNP should be backing the IN campaign,slating the ludicrous situation whereby the SNP want to be in Union with Europe and not the UK. SNP have to back Brexit, their independence plan is based on EU membership and a currency union with the UK......can't have that if RUK are out of the EU. Also Scotland backs remain 2:1 against Brexit in most polls.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 18:25:15 GMT
Sturgeons Party are woefully out of step with their voters over Europe Peter,with two thirds in favour of Brexit. Jim Sillars a leading SNP member has actually questioned publicly last week whether the SNP should be backing the IN campaign,slating the ludicrous situation whereby the SNP want to be in Union with Europe and not the UK. SNP have to back Brexit, their independence plan is based on EU membership and a currency union with the UK......can't have that if RUK are out of the EU. Also Scotland backs remain 2:1 against Brexit in most polls. You have lost me,the SNP aren't backing Brexit and polls of SNP members show that the majority are indeed in favour of Brexit putting them out of step with their Leadership
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Post by sabcat on May 23, 2016 19:11:37 GMT
Sorry, they have to back Remain because their independence plan.....also I've not seen any polls of SNP member specifically but Remain is way ahead in Scotland, 2:1 in some
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 19:21:33 GMT
Sorry, they have to back Remain because their independence plan.....also I've not seen any polls of SNP member specifically but Remain is way ahead in Scotland, 2:1 in some If you google SNP members for brexit,you will read a great article in the Independent, sorry I am shit at posting links
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Post by quaysider on May 24, 2016 6:30:43 GMT
Sorry for delay in returning - I'm taking a few hours back this week from work and doing chores to improve my home and garden... (the value of which, Sabcat will take great pleasure in seeing reduce).
There have been some well informed responses and rational debate going on. I do feel I ought to explain, at no point am I critical of my older peers views on this subject. The point I was attempting to make was that I DO understand THEIR points of view ... from their positions. I get lost in some folks terminology but try to take as much information in as possible.
I suppose, some would blame being one of Thatchers children for my tory leanings... to some extent that is true, but what has been a more consistent influence, has been the teachings of the environment I was brought up in - ie from a large but poor HARD WORKING family ... not one of which had something for nothing... Right from being a small child, I was taught that I had to "do" something in exchange for "something" - I had pocket money of course, but I had to earn that by running errands or doing chores.
Fast forward from mowing parents' lawns to today, and here I am, having worked out that in order to be able to afford to live when I am no longer FIT/healthy enough to work full time, will mean the removal of the largest living expense... that being the one that puts a roof over your head. SO - accepting I won't have enough money to pay rent, what other option was there but to take on a mortgage for a ridiculously over priced pile of bricks? - The aim of course being to have it paid off so that my private and state pension (what ever is left by then) will be enough to live off in old age.
What other choice was there? - Surely to expect "the state" to finance an ageing population would be reliant upon getting the money from somewhere? - presumably by either taxing or, BORROWING? - BORROWING??? ffs, what good will that do but defer the problem down the line. The only way forward I could see was to take responsibility for myself ... to ensure I won't be too reliant on tomorrows youngsters. I have friends (hard to believe I know) who bury their heads in the sand and take the approach of doing nothing themselves - safe in the knowledge they THINK the state will HAVE to provide for them ... I don't have that much faith!
Like I already said, I still don't know how to vote on the matter... all I can look at is where the "world" is today... and closing our eyes tightly, will not make it all go away.
Ideologically, I might be inclined to opt out but perhaps I AM being selfish with my fears. As has been said before, IF you don't owe any money on your house and it's just somewhere to live for free, the value of it is irrelevant... it's only for every idiot like me, it does become a problem. ROCK - HARD place! Some will be happy that we spent the last 7 years of our lives working like loons and saving every penny possible to raise the deposit to buy the place, only to have it effectively stolen from beneath us... they might not be so smug, when the canals have run dry and "their" so called off-grid homes are laying beached on the mud because there isn't the money to keep the pumps going.
I realise that sounds like it's all about house prices - it's not, but "the markets" are volatile as we know and for all people like to try and convince themselves they don't affect Joe public on the ground, they're deluding themselves...
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Post by naughtyfox on May 24, 2016 6:57:50 GMT
It really doesn't matter if Britain 'stays in' or 'jumps out' - nothing will change until the people realise that the politicians need to be beaten round the head with a big wet dead fish. The corruption and mismanagement starts at your local Town Hall. Go in there and ask to see their accounts - and you will be asked to leave.
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Post by sabcat on May 24, 2016 8:37:54 GMT
Sorry for delay in returning - I'm taking a few hours back this week from work and doing chores to improve my home and garden... (the value of which, Sabcat will take great pleasure in seeing reduce). There have been some well informed responses and rational debate going on. I do feel I ought to explain, at no point am I critical of my older peers views on this subject. The point I was attempting to make was that I DO understand THEIR points of view ... from their positions. I get lost in some folks terminology but try to take as much information in as possible. I suppose, some would blame being one of Thatchers children for my tory leanings... to some extent that is true, but what has been a more consistent influence, has been the teachings of the environment I was brought up in - ie from a large but poor HARD WORKING family ... not one of which had something for nothing... Right from being a small child, I was taught that I had to "do" something in exchange for "something" - I had pocket money of course, but I had to earn that by running errands or doing chores. Fast forward from mowing parents' lawns to today, and here I am, having worked out that in order to be able to afford to live when I am no longer FIT/healthy enough to work full time, will mean the removal of the largest living expense... that being the one that puts a roof over your head. SO - accepting I won't have enough money to pay rent, what other option was there but to take on a mortgage for a ridiculously over priced pile of bricks? - The aim of course being to have it paid off so that my private and state pension (what ever is left by then) will be enough to live off in old age. What other choice was there? - Surely to expect "the state" to finance an ageing population would be reliant upon getting the money from somewhere? - presumably by either taxing or, BORROWING? - BORROWING??? ffs, what good will that do but defer the problem down the line. The only way forward I could see was to take responsibility for myself ... to ensure I won't be too reliant on tomorrows youngsters. I have friends (hard to believe I know) who bury their heads in the sand and take the approach of doing nothing themselves - safe in the knowledge they THINK the state will HAVE to provide for them ... I don't have that much faith! Like I already said, I still don't know how to vote on the matter... all I can look at is where the "world" is today... and closing our eyes tightly, will not make it all go away. Ideologically, I might be inclined to opt out but perhaps I AM being selfish with my fears. As has been said before, IF you don't owe any money on your house and it's just somewhere to live for free, the value of it is irrelevant... it's only for every idiot like me, it does become a problem. ROCK - HARD place! Some will be happy that we spent the last 7 years of our lives working like loons and saving every penny possible to raise the deposit to buy the place, only to have it effectively stolen from beneath us... they might not be so smug, when the canals have run dry and "their" so called off-grid homes are laying beached on the mud because there isn't the money to keep the pumps going. I realise that sounds like it's all about house prices - it's not, but "the markets" are volatile as we know and for all people like to try and convince themselves they don't affect Joe public on the ground, they're deluding themselves... You're all over the place. First off your obsession with house prices, twee as it is, ranks amongst the most corrosive issues in society today. It's a shit situation for you right enough - big mortgage, low inflation so the debt isn't decreasing, stagnating wages so your ability to pay isn't improving. Just a couple of decades of hard graft. Sucks. You don't see it like that though, you're on the ladder and your happy that it should be pulled up. That's why I have zero sympathy for you even though none of it's your fault (just as I wasn't clever when I bought a house in '97 and had a mortgage which cost less a month than the insurance on the Celica GT4 I was driving at the time), your view of it is. Not really sure how this is connected with Brexit though, that asset bubble has to burst because the conditions that sustain it can't persist and it has to burst because it is literally destroying social cohesion in cities (most notably London) across the country. Sucks to be you. Sorry.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 24, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
Not really sure how this is connected with Brexit though, that asset bubble has to burst because the conditions that sustain it can't persist and it has to burst because it is literally destroying social cohesion in cities (most notably London) across the country. Sucks to be you. Sorry. While I'd like to see housing costs come down for the sake of younger people, I'm not entirely sure that it is a bubble or that it will burst. People have been saying pretty much the same thing for 15 years now and it hasn't happened yet.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 24, 2016 13:42:46 GMT
And I'm still waiting for Jesus to come, people have been saying that forever... Attachment Deleted
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Post by naughtyfox on May 24, 2016 14:43:32 GMT
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Post by Albion on May 24, 2016 15:32:46 GMT
What other choice was there? - Surely to expect "the state" to finance an ageing population would be reliant upon getting the money from somewhere? - presumably by either taxing or, BORROWING? - BORROWING??? ffs, what good will that do but defer the problem down the line. The only way forward I could see was to take responsibility for myself ... to ensure I won't be too reliant on tomorrows youngsters. I have friends (hard to believe I know) who bury their heads in the sand and take the approach of doing nothing themselves - safe in the knowledge they THINK the state will HAVE to provide for them ... I don't have that much faith! Unfortunately you can only blame all successive governments for the present situation. No government has ever put money into a pot to cover pension provisions and other requirements of the changing demographic of an ageing population. All those costs have largely been provided by the taxes of the working majority (some pensioners also pay taxes of course but probably not to the same level as those in employment). However, now that the proportion of the ageing population is growing relative to the currently employed it has brought home this lack of planning and caused the recent increases in retirement age which, I am afraid, will only get worse because of the increase in longevity and the pensions etc that will need paying for in the future.Ideologically, I might be inclined to opt out but perhaps I AM being selfish with my fears. As has been said before, IF you don't owe any money on your house and it's just somewhere to live for free, the value of it is irrelevant... it's only for every idiot like me, it does become a problem. ROCK - HARD place! Some will be happy that we spent the last 7 years of our lives working like loons and saving every penny possible to raise the deposit to buy the place, only to have it effectively stolen from beneath us... they might not be so smug, when the canals have run dry and "their" so called off-grid homes are laying beached on the mud because there isn't the money to keep the pumps going. Please don't think that it was easy back then to get a house via a mortgage either. As a graduate engineer in a relatively well paid job and with a wife who was a full time teacher I was denied a mortgage for a house costing £9,500. We could only raise £8,500 on a mortgage directly and had to cover the mortgage liability of the remaining £1,000 with an insurance cover in case we defaulted. Then there was a period, shortly after we had got the house, when inflation was running at about 15% IIRC and the mortgage was going up by 0.5% or 0.75% most months. In that period it was cheaper to buy something on HP rather than save for it because you could not save as fast as the inflation was raising prices. By taking the goods on HP you at least pegged the price. Roger
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