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Post by boatman on May 12, 2016 11:07:59 GMT
June the 7th 9pm on ITV (biased in)!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 11:16:58 GMT
I see theres a bit of shit flying this morning from the BREXIT camp because Boris or Gove have been overlooked for this debate. The contention is that No 10 have picked the participants which is a disgrace really.
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Post by PaulG2 on May 13, 2016 0:18:22 GMT
I truly can't understand why the UK joined the EU in the first place. I guess it goes back to the old European Common Market and the multi-nationals slowly but surely getting their tentacles into all of the governments in Europe. But, jeez, Britain had a government long before many countries had a schoolhouse. History likes to credit the Greeks for democracy, but that was mostly just an elitist sport and philosophical ramblings back then. The Magna Carta was the game changer. That was the real start of people having rights that are documented and guaranteed.
The UK did quite well for itself before the EU came along. I can't see why anyone would fear leaving. At least you had the foresight to keep your own currency, so you don't have that hurdle to face if you do leave. The vast majority of the trade that is going on can be continued with treaties. No one is going to restrict your freedom to travel any more than they would mine. Without the EU bureaucracy meddling in your affairs, and without a constant supply of cheap eastern European labor, your economy and your society just might start thriving again.
Imagine how many Syrian refugees your island could have taken in if you didn't have any eastern Europeans there now. BTW I have nothing against eastern Europeans, I'm even married to one. What I disagree with is for multinational corporations to be able to dictate immigration policy because it will always be to their advantage and always to promote cheaper labor.
I think the multi-nationals fear a Brexit not because it would lead to a breakup of the EU, but because people in the EU would suddenly realize that they do have power over their destinies, if they get off their arses and exercise those rights. A Brexit might ultimately lead to more autonomy for the remaining member states. It would certainly show the powers to be that they have to keep the peasants happy or else the peasants will revolt.
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Post by Delta9 on May 13, 2016 8:40:53 GMT
The UK did quite well for itself before the EU came along. I can't see why anyone would fear leaving. This is bullshit, the UK was on its arse when we joined the EU.
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Post by kris on May 13, 2016 8:55:42 GMT
What I can't understand is why isn't America taking in any refugees, being a country of mainly immigrants and one of the main instigators of the situation in the Middle East. I thought it would be a no brainer.
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Post by Clinton Cool on May 13, 2016 9:22:51 GMT
What I can't understand is why isn't America taking in any refugees, being a country of mainly immigrants and one of the main instigators of the situation in the Middle East. I thought it would be a no brainer. Perhaps it's the other way round, in that America is not a popular choice for refugees rather than the country not allowing them in. Europe is much closer to home and the more developed countries, those afflicted with too much socialism, have welfare systems in place that dwarf those of America.
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Post by kris on May 13, 2016 10:08:07 GMT
Yes I suppose you can't actually physically walk to America.
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mac10
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Post by mac10 on May 13, 2016 11:19:11 GMT
Yes I suppose you can't actually physically walk to America. Or the UK for that matter - at least given the thousands of Economic Migrants at Calais...
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Post by peterboat on May 13, 2016 14:05:56 GMT
The UK did quite well for itself before the EU came along. I can't see why anyone would fear leaving. This is bullshit, the UK was on its arse when we joined the EU. I think that was when we joined the common market! we just drifted into the EU sleepwalking I am hoping we take big marching steps out!!
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Post by PaulG2 on May 13, 2016 15:09:27 GMT
What I can't understand is why isn't America taking in any refugees, being a country of mainly immigrants and one of the main instigators of the situation in the Middle East. I thought it would be a no brainer. First of all, "America is a country of immigrants" is more a slogan than anything else anymore. Sure our ancestors immigrated here once, but the vast majority of our population is American born. For the most part, you don't notice immigrants all that much because their kids grow up to be just every other American kid and we don't get ethnic minority enclaves that stick out. There are exceptions, of course, but people here tend to blend and much of it is the kids. The kids don't want to be "different" from their peers. The US has committed to taking in 10,000 or 20,000 Syrian refugees, but it takes 1 1/2 to 2 years for the vetting process so we haven't seen any influx of Syrians yet. We could easily take a few hundred thousand refugees and absorb them into our society without so much as a hic-up. The thing is, accepting a large number of Syrian refugees would mean that we would have to acknowledge our responsibility in those people becoming refugees, and the United States does not officially admit mistakes or ever say that it was wrong. If you were to walk the halls of congress here, you would be hard pressed to find any elected official who would admit that the war in Vietnam was a mistake, let alone that we lost said war, and that ended 40 years ago. Getting any politician here to admit responsibility for what is happening in the Middle East is next to impossible. Hell, republicans blame the current mess on Obama by saying that he pulled out of Iraq too soon. (It was actually GW Bush that negotiated and signed the status of forces agreement that removed our military from Iraq, but you can't confuse republicans with facts, so they blame Obama. The point is, many politicians here believe that the ME is fucked up not because we went there and f'd it up, but because we didn't stay long enough. Then you have the current political climate with Trump promising right-wing bigots voters that he is going to bar muslims from immigrating to America. This is red meat for the racist white supremacists, like the majority of those supporting Trump, and they are becoming very vocal. The right wing currently controls both houses of congress, so there is no hope whatsoever of any relief coming from the legislative branch of our government. The political climate here is hard to explain, but essentially racism is running rampant here, particularly toward muslims. Couple that with politicians who won't admit when we are wrong and that's about the simplest explanation around.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 14, 2016 18:04:58 GMT
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Post by smileypete on May 15, 2016 18:46:51 GMT
Not supporting the remain side, but to be fair not all migration is from the EU as there was a huge push in international migration while labour were power, something they're quiet about: To be honest I have nothing against the east european workers, on the whole they're a great bunch and very hard working, and have a somewhat similar culture, it's just that demand for housing has helped turned Britain into a nation of winners and losers.
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Post by sabcat on May 15, 2016 19:01:27 GMT
I'm voting to leave and immigration is right at the bottom of my list of reasons. Also issues with housing aren't driven by immigration, it's an asset bubble. In London (high immigration, highest house prices) the number of empty houses is at a record high.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 19:08:24 GMT
I'm voting to leave and immigration is right at the bottom of my list of reasons. Also issues with housing aren't driven by immigration, it's an asset bubble. In London (high immigration, highest house prices) the number of empty houses is at a record high. What about council housing ?I don't see many empty ones in Milton Keynes and immigration has played a large part in filling them
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Post by naughtyfox on May 17, 2016 15:26:16 GMT
Just a thought. All those who vote for Britain to leave the morally corrupt EU get to stay in Britain if Britain opts out. All those who voted to stay in get sent to Brussels by Eurostar and dumped there. Passports removed from their grasp as they exit. What's wrong with that?
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