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Post by kris on Dec 11, 2016 11:02:44 GMT
sorry it's a crap site but the only place I could find a video its an Interesting video John thanks for posting it
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 11:38:53 GMT
I know the video is also on farcebook but I 'aint. The skipper of the towing workboat (the one you can't see) "Nitricia" is chap called Johnny Reid This Johnny Reid is a very good skipper to pull that (for this low bridge huge) houseboat small and low passage, requires more than only a bit of experience.
I often wonder why they take risks like that towing, if you would push, the pushed object becomes one with the pusher, and then added with a couple of small cameras the job would be so much easier to line up and get through a low bridge like this one, but in the skilful hands of Johnny they managed without any damage.
Peter.
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 11:49:03 GMT
One thing leads to another: This clearly isn't an experienced skipper, why didn't he dismantle the wheelhouse before going through, and by the looks of it there's very lttle height missing.
The BIG mistake the inexperienced make is as soon as they hear some slight scraping noice, they'll reverse to stop the boat, but by doing so they pump water underneath the boat which will lift up the stern, and of course the wheelhouse will touch even more, the best chance they would have had to get through would have been to accelerate as soon as they heard the first scraping noice, as then the stern would have gone down and have given the boat a bit more spare space.
In a real long tunnel this wouldn't work, but for this short passage it would, and that's surely what I would have done, if I would have been too lazy to take the wheelhouse down.
Peter.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 11, 2016 11:52:59 GMT
I know the video is also on farcebook but I 'aint. The skipper of the towing workboat (the one you can't see) "Nitricia" is chap called Johnny Reid This Johnny Reid is a very good skipper to pull that (for this low bridge huge) houseboat small and low passage, requires more than only a bit of experience.
I often wonder why they take risks like that towing, if you would push, the pushed object becomes one with the pusher, and then added with a couple of small cameras the job would be so much easier to line up and get through a low bridge like this one, but in the skilful hands of Johnny they managed without any damage.
Peter.
Couple of times I have been with him when he was towing, it's a delight. He makes it all seem so smooth and easy. No thrashing of engines, does the manoeuvering at not much more than a tickover and everything just seems to drop into place naturally.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 11:59:03 GMT
One thing leads to another: This clearly isn't an experienced skipper, why didn't he dismantle the wheelhouse before going through, and by the looks of it there's very lttle height missing.
The BIG mistake the inexperienced make is as soon as they hear some slight scraping noice, they'll reverse to stop the boat, but by doing so they pump water underneath the boat which will lift up the stern, and of course the wheelhouse will touch even more, the best chance they would have had to get through would have been to accelerate as soon as they heard the first scraping noice, as then the stern would have gone down and have given the boat a bit more spare space.
In a real long tunnel this wouldn't work, but for this short passage it would, and that's surely what I would have done, if I would have been too lazy to take the wheelhouse down.
Peter.
Its quite local to me and I saw the boat the other side of that bridge. I think he had successfully passed under it with wheelhouse up but when he went back the water level was slightly higher and he was caught out. As it happens I can get under that bridge with my wheelhouse up with about 30mm to spare. I can see how it could cause problems if for example a lock further up was being emptied and there was a surge of water.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 12:02:18 GMT
When I go through regents canal bridges with wheelhouse up I stop the boat and walk it through dead slow.
I know what you mean above giving it a blast in forward gear but there is so much rubbish in there I think you might regret it !
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 13:01:21 GMT
When I go through regents canal bridges with wheelhouse up I stop the boat and walk it through dead slow. I know what you mean above giving it a blast in forward gear but there is so much rubbish in there I think you might regret it ! While going under a bridge that is too low to pass under normally with an empty Freycinet, revving her up will make you gain upto 30cms, which should be (just) enough, but as you said there's always the worry that a lock higher up is just being emptied and that can make the difference of not passing anymore, and doing serious damage.
The canal du Nord has a very bad name for this, as there's almost a tidal wave that can lift you up 50 cms, if the bridge you have to get under is close to a lock, and the lockkeeper is a good one (preferably an ex-bargee) he/she will warn you, and then you you wait a minute before you go under the bridge, and all is fine.
Peter.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 11, 2016 13:57:13 GMT
Your post as regards accelerating to drop the stern ..... I have a book called Severn Tanking, in it there are several photo's of tankers pushing under Worcester bridge on the Severn under flood conditions. He describes coming downstream with the wheelhouse lowered and the wheel with it's centre nut removed so that it could be pulled off at last second (as with the wheelhouse collapsed the wheel was the highest point). They would run at the bridge hole although there was not enough clearance and depend on the barge blocking the water flow in the bridge hole causing the water level to drop a few inches to let them through.
There is no getting away from it, some of those old time skippers were real class acts
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 14:51:03 GMT
Your post as regards accelerating to drop the stern ..... I have a book called Severn Tanking, in it there are several photo's of tankers pushing under Worcester bridge on the Severn under flood conditions. He describes coming downstream with the wheelhouse lowered and the wheel with it's centre nut removed so that it could be pulled off at last second (as with the wheelhouse collapsed the wheel was the highest point). They would run at the bridge hole although there was not enough clearance and depend on the barge blocking the water flow in the bridge hole causing the water level to drop a few inches to let them through. There is no getting away from it, some of those old time skippers were real class acts I have an endless admiration for these old time skippers, they still understood how to read the water.
In the Netherlands we used to have lots of fairly (to really) big towed barges until around halfway the 70's when most of them were motorised or adapted to be pushed instead of towed.
If the motorised barges were still operated by the same skippers as the one that were running them before, you could always see that they were better in handling their barges with hardly any (over)use of the engines, because in the past they didn't have an engine, and they still managed to get their barges where they had to be.
Nowadays big powerful engines have to make up for the often lacking knowledge of reading the water like the ancesters of most of the modern skippers had.
Peter.
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Post by kris on Dec 11, 2016 14:57:50 GMT
There is a tendency to over engine boats.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 11, 2016 15:01:19 GMT
There is a tendency to over engine boats. I plead guilty m'lud (160 Hp in Sabina)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 15:03:04 GMT
Yes in some senses but it depends if you are talking about HP or torque and propeller size which is dependant on draught.
For example a Sheffield size number barge might have a Lister JP4 which is about 40-50hp but it runs slow with a big propeller. A modern barge the same size would probably be specced with a 90-120-150hp engine but it will be running at higher rpm with a smaller propeller.
It depends what you mean by over engine.
When I replaced a nackered Perkins M90 in my barge I put in a Beta 90 when a 75 would have done the job. To be fair even the 90 feels a little underpowered on the Thames tideway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 15:05:22 GMT
Depending on vessel use putting in larger than required can be a sensible strategy imo
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 15:11:48 GMT
There is a tendency to over engine boats. I plead guilty m'lud (160 Hp in Sabina) While she originally may have had 30 to 40 Hp ? you surely have enough spare power, but I'm sure that it still wouldn't be enough for some .
My Trawler yacht has 2 x 125Hp (non-turbo)DAF engines, they've only done around 3600h, so I won'replace them, and I want to sell the boat in afew years anyway.
But if I would keep her I would change the engines for 2 x 40 Hp which is more than enough.
In my family we had some Coaster owners, and one of my uncles had a 2 cylinder 60HP engine in his (small) Coaster, when his son got his captains papers, he bought a Coaster with a 3 cylinder 90 Hp engine, of which his father said that there was no need for all that power, and that his son was wasting money (early 60's).
Peter.
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Post by bargemast on Dec 11, 2016 15:19:10 GMT
Yes in some senses but it depends if you are talking about HP or torque and propeller size which is dependant on draught. For example a Sheffield size number barge might have a Lister JP4 which is about 40-50hp but it runs slow with a big propeller. A modern barge the same size would probably be specced with a 90-120-150hp engine but it will be running at higher rpm with a smaller propeller. It depends what you mean by over engine. When I replaced a nackered Perkins M90 in my barge I put in a Beta 90 when a 75 would have done the job. To be fair even the 90 feels a little underpowered on the Thames tideway. Laying next to me is a very good book of which the title is : "Dry Cargo Barges on the Humber Waterways", by Mike Taylor, he writes about the Keels that were motorised to start with mainly with Lister JP-2 engines and a few with JP-3, and even with so little power they were towing dumb barges.
They had to wait and use the flow of the river a lot of the time, but they managed with their old time skippers.
Peter.
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