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Post by tadworth on Feb 28, 2017 23:52:33 GMT
One for Nigel here,
section 4 of the 1975 act says a licence allows the use of all the boards inland waterways without further payment, and in the previous part entitled " interpretation" it says " inland waterway" includes any works, lands or premises.
Is this relevant ?
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Post by NigelMoore on Mar 1, 2017 0:11:43 GMT
Relevant to what? It merely affirms that if you possess/ed a boat licence for all waterways, you would not be required either to pay the tolls previously demanded for locks, or to pay the new registration fees on top of the licence fee.
The definition of “inland waterways” demonstrates only that it is a term of useful contrivance; in the context you refer to, it is to be taken sensibly as referring to all BW waterways that the licensed boat could physically navigate, whether canal or river. If one was to make more out of the term – as Shoosmiths attempt in other contexts – then I suppose you could then argue that a boat licence gave you the right to navigate through the office buildings and carparks. Good luck with that; it would be an interesting exercise for someone with an amphibious craft.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 9:52:04 GMT
One for Nigel here, section 4 of the 1975 act says a licence allows the use of all the boards inland waterways without further payment, and in the previous part entitled " interpretation" it says " inland waterway" includes any works, lands or premises. Is this relevant ? Just wondering where you are going with that post Tadworth. Is it relevant to anything you have in mind? Licence fees maybe?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Mar 1, 2017 10:55:49 GMT
One for Nigel here, section 4 of the 1975 act says a licence allows the use of all the boards inland waterways without further payment, and in the previous part entitled " interpretation" it says " inland waterway" includes any works, lands or premises. Is this relevant ? That wording is in para. 4) of Section 3 of the 1975 Act, Richard, . . . S.4 is concerned only with displaying Houseboat Certificates, but in any case I don't think there is any mileage to be had from it. Something that is more significant, however, is the distinction drawn between a 'Licence' and a 'Pleasure Boat Certificate' throughout Section 3 of the 1975 Act. C&RT continue with their pretence that the PBC they are obliged to issue to boats on the PRN River Waterways scheduled in the 1971 Act is a form of 'Licence' by selling these Certificates as 'Rivers only Licences'. The distinction is important and significant, but C&RT have very successfully conned boaters into believing the lie and, much more seriously, a great many County Courts and Judges into rubber stamping their 'ultra vires' Injunctions which purport to exclude Section 8'd boats from their River Waterways. The power to override, or exclude from, a PRN does NOT rest with either the navigation authority, nor with any Court in the land.
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Post by tadworth on Mar 1, 2017 18:47:30 GMT
I was thinking about the words " no further charge" and that including land as well as water, in relevance to CRT claim that they can charge for anything they see fit.
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Post by NigelMoore on Mar 1, 2017 20:23:51 GMT
An interesting idea! Anyone with a PB Licence can have free rein to use whatever other facilities are on offer, land or water, with CaRT unable to charge extra for ANYTHING.
However – one must not fall into the bad habits of others when construing the meaning of such legislation; best to leave the nonsensical and amoral aberrations of thought to the experts.
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Post by tadworth on Mar 1, 2017 21:42:04 GMT
It was very late at night when I read it.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Mar 9, 2017 12:30:52 GMT
I've been trying to buy a Pleasure Boat Certificate - the so-called 'Rivers only Licence' - through the 'on line' system on C&RT's website, since yesterday afternoon.
I'm not very good with computers, or anything much of the new-fangled stuff that runs off electricity, and they tend to go wrong and break down as soon as I go anywhere near them, but I don't think the blame for the shambolic and nigh on unuseable fashion in which the on-line boat licensing operates, or rather doesn't, can be laid at my door. Once you've typed in your name and e-mail address the system makes a lot of assumptions, puts you into various pigeon-holes based on those assumptions, and then won't allow you to amend the incorrect information that's being displayed, so you have to phone them, explain what's happening to one of the tweenys on the switchboard, and then wait for them to - quote - " . . get everything on to the system" and call you back. Half way through the following day, . . . and I'm still waiting. The whole process wouldn't have taken any longer if I'd sent an Application form and a cheque to Craft Licensing via carrier pigeon.
It hasn't all been a complete waste of time, though, it's caused me to stumble across another instance of what looks very like C&RT deviousness and/or dishonesty. All the way through the on-line application, up to and including the calculation of the final cost of what you're applying for, the fact that, by law, boats on C&RT's river navigations only need to be registered and don't have to be 'licensed' never gets a mention, . . . quite revealing as to how the C&RT "managerial mind" works and the extent of their dishonesty, particularly in light of the fact that in mid May this year [Leigh Ravencroft's Claim against C&RT] one of the things they're going to have to try to convince the High Court about is that boats on PRN river navigations scheduled to the 1971 BW Act have to be 'Licensed' by them to be on the river lawfully despite the fact that the enduring common law Public Right of Navigation already confers that right on every boatowner anyway.
Throughout the step by step process there is no acknowledgement of the availability of anything other than a 'Licence' for boats; this 'Licence' being defined and priced as either 'Canal and River' Licence or a 'Rivers only' Licence, and nowhere is there any mention whatsoever of the Pleasure Boat Certificate [PBC] which is all the law requires of vessels on the C&RT controlled river navigations.
However, the most blatant piece of attempted public brainwashing is the final cost calculation. The cost of river registration, or a PBC, is limited in statute to 60% of the cost of a Pleasure Boat Licence, but in their on-line 'licensing' process C&RT are presenting the PBC, in truth NOT a 'Licence' at all, as a Licence which they are discounting to the tune of 40% : -
Licence Price
12 Month licence £630.96
Price after Discounts : £340.72
Prompt payment (10%)
River Only (40%)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 12:49:40 GMT
Tweeny. New word for me. I always like expanding my vocabulary ta for that
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Post by tadworth on Mar 9, 2017 15:01:02 GMT
You will love this Tony, but I just called CRT business boating and asked why the trading licence is charged more than the pleasure boat in contravention of the law, and they said they aren't allowed to talk to me !
They are panicking.
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Post by thebfg on Mar 9, 2017 16:07:26 GMT
You will love this Tony, but I just called CRT business boating and asked why the trading licence is charged more than the pleasure boat in contravention of the law, and they said they aren't allowed to talk to me ! They are panicking. I think you need an alias. I wonder if they have your mug shot up aswell.
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Post by tadworth on Mar 9, 2017 17:32:59 GMT
Someone else should call them and ask why the trading licence illegally costs more than the pleasure boat licence, see what happens ?
business.boating@canalrivertrust.org.uk
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 18:29:46 GMT
To the music of "only fools and horses"
No income tax, no VAT No money back, no guarantee Black or white, rich or broke We'll raise prices at a stroke Only canal and river trust can.
Where it all comes from is a mystery It's like the changing of the seasons And the tides of the sea But heres the one thats driving me berserk Why don't canal and river trust work.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Mar 10, 2017 9:55:33 GMT
You will love this Tony, but I just called CRT business boating and asked why the trading licence is charged more than the pleasure boat in contravention of the law, and they said they aren't allowed to talk to me ! Were it not for the totally unnecessary grief and anxiety that C&RT inflict on their selected targets they would be very funny, and excellent entertainment. The more I see of their general performance and illegal shenanigans, the more mystified I am. Every aspect of the way the Trust carries out it's designated functions almost give the impression that they're purposely set up and administered to fail. This silly practice of periodically suspending communication with those with whom they are, or have been, in dispute is a prime example of how and why the senior management, from the CEO down, are quite simply unfit to hold the positions they're in. Given the choice of approaching things either in a considered, constructive and positive manner or alternatively, in an ill-considered, destructive and completely pointless manner, their choice will invariably be to take the latter course of action. I really don't know just what makes them tick !
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Post by tadworth on Apr 19, 2017 13:56:09 GMT
Parry is an idiot if he thinks he can run CRT based on false interpretations of the law, the only end result is that the longer it goes on the worse the fall will be, his staff have to keep 101 lies spinning at once and can't be trusted to talk to the public without putting their foot in it. I expect Parry will jump ship before the shit hits the fan, the worm.
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