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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 3, 2018 18:27:07 GMT
Dropped the engine filter, saw a mixture of water and diesel so problem located in about 20 mins!👍 There shouldn't be any water in the diesel. Diesel engines should always be powered by diesel which is withdrawn upwards from the tank via a stacker pipe. The stacker pipe should terminate a few inches above the base of the tank so that crud and water can sink to the bottom of the tank and not be withdrawn. If water is present in the separator filter then there is the possibility that the bottom of the tank has accumulated so much water that it now reaches the stacker pipe. Have you tested the contents of the tank for purity?
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Post by Andyberg on Jul 3, 2018 18:35:10 GMT
Dropped the engine filter, saw a mixture of water and diesel so problem located in about 20 mins!👍 There shouldn't be any water in the diesel. Diesel engines should always be powered by diesel which is withdrawn upwards from the tank via a stacker pipe. The stacker pipe should terminate a few inches above the base of the tank so that crud and water can sink to the bottom of the tank and not be withdrawn. If water is present in the separator filter then there is the possibility that the bottom of the tank has accumulated so much water that it now reaches the stacker pipe. Have you tested the contents of the tank for purity? Im doing that end at weekend, I've drained the run through the two filters to the motor and shut off the two taps so the tanks isolated. I'll clean the 80 odd litres in the tank and use it thro my Bubble over winter mixed with kerosene, Ill fill tank with fresh.👍
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 3, 2018 18:43:21 GMT
There shouldn't be any water in the diesel. Diesel engines should always be powered by diesel which is withdrawn upwards from the tank via a stacker pipe. The stacker pipe should terminate a few inches above the base of the tank so that crud and water can sink to the bottom of the tank and not be withdrawn. If water is present in the separator filter then there is the possibility that the bottom of the tank has accumulated so much water that it now reaches the stacker pipe. Have you tested the contents of the tank for purity? Im doing that end at weekend, I've drained the run through the two filters to the motor and shut off the two taps so the tanks isolated. I'll clean the 80 odd litres in the tank and use it thro my Bubble over winter mixed with kerosene, Ill fill tank with fresh.👍 I'd suggest getting hold of a 12v liquid transfer pump and pumping out a couple of litres from the very bottom of the tank, into a 2l PET Lemonade bottle. Allow it to stand for a while and then examine it. If it is nearly all water then discard it and repeat the exercise until you obtain pure diesel. I would also suggest avoiding buying fuel from wherever you obtained the last lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 18:46:03 GMT
Has the tank got a drain right at the bottom?
If not then how would you get everything out?
Depending on the tank I think there is an argument to be made for cutting a hole in the top and sending in a small infant to clean it out then rivet a plate over the top with a rubber gasket. Having removed the infant.
That way you get a clean tank. Otherwise if it is dirty with too much shite and possible biological growth (other than the infant) then you'll just get agro again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 18:47:37 GMT
Or do what Mr Stabby suggests but maybe consider throwing some biocide in there for safety.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 3, 2018 20:19:10 GMT
There shouldn't be any water in the diesel. Diesel engines should always be powered by diesel which is withdrawn upwards from the tank via a stacker pipe. The stacker pipe should terminate a few inches above the base of the tank so that crud and water can sink to the bottom of the tank and not be withdrawn. If water is present in the separator filter then there is the possibility that the bottom of the tank has accumulated so much water that it now reaches the stacker pipe. Have you tested the contents of the tank for purity? Im doing that end at weekend, I've drained the run through the two filters to the motor and shut off the two taps so the tanks isolated. I'll clean the 80 odd litres in the tank and use it thro my Bubble over winter mixed with kerosene, Ill fill tank with fresh.👍 You mean to say you don't regularly vacuum the bottom of your fuel tank like wot we do? Get a transparent rigid straight pipe, stick it in your tank, put finger on top of pipe, pull pipe up - instantly you can see what's down there. I am obviously thick as I haven't a clue what the problem was - was it just water in the fuel filter? Where did all the white smoke come from? (I did suggest water being burned, didn't I? Remember?) Someone sum it up in a nutshell for me.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 3, 2018 20:22:21 GMT
Why has Andy got just 80 litres of fuel in the tank? Our little boat has about a 250-litre tank. If you haven't been keeping your tank FULL and reducing condensation and got water in it like that then u gotta be a bigger berk than the whole of Berkhamsted.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 3, 2018 20:26:36 GMT
Im doing that end at weekend, I've drained the run through the two filters to the motor and shut off the two taps so the tanks isolated. I'll clean the 80 odd litres in the tank and use it thro my Bubble over winter mixed with kerosene, Ill fill tank with fresh.👍 I'd suggest getting hold of a 12v liquid transfer pump and pumping out a couple of litres We suck out 20-25 litres each 'vacuuming' into 5 litre transparent ex-drinking water containers. If it looks OK, 90% back in to tank via a filter in a funnel.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 3, 2018 20:29:08 GMT
Has the tank got a drain right at the bottom? If not then how would you get everything out? Cut a big hole and chuck a dwarf in with a J-cloth and some kitchen towel.
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Post by Jim on Jul 3, 2018 21:03:23 GMT
I know a man selling small children. Diesel fitter, sir.
I can see the sense in Tony's system. But it's like talking to a herd of Yorkshiremen. Tha' can allus tell.......
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 3, 2018 21:21:23 GMT
Im doing that end at weekend, I've drained the run through the two filters to the motor and shut off the two taps so the tanks isolated. I'll clean the 80 odd litres in the tank and use it thro my Bubble over winter mixed with kerosene, Ill fill tank with fresh.👍 . . . . . . was it just water in the fuel filter? Where did all the white smoke come from? (I did suggest water being burned, didn't I? Remember?) Someone sum it up in a nutshell for me. It wasn't so much the water in the bowl of the secondary filter that was the problem, although that would have soon begun to induce a bit of irregular misfiring as the level rose, the real problem was the accumulation of emulsified diesel fuel (resembling Salad Cream) in the cavity in the injection pump body casting that houses the fuel injection element barrels. The inlet and spill ports in those pump element barrels are a small distance above the bottom of the cavity they're in and a small amount of water/emulsified fuel can accumulate and sit there quite harmlessly until it builds up enough to reach the level of the lower edge of the inlet and spill ports, . . then it gets sucked into the pump elements on every firing stroke. Due to both the banjo fitting for the fuel-in pipe and the bleed screw on the other side of the pump body being in the top of the fuel chamber, and the fact that diesel fuel floats on water, was why Andy was getting clean fuel flowing out of the bleed screw every time he bled the fuel system through to the pump, . . and why checking the injection timing by way of a process that draws fuel, along with any muck that's present, from lower down in the pump body than the pump bleed screw revealed the presence of the emulsified fuel after just a few minutes work and in a way that no amount of system bleeding or farting about with temporary fuel supply systems ever could.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2018 21:30:17 GMT
Whatevvvaaaarr. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 3, 2018 21:36:21 GMT
I can see the sense in Tony's system. But it's like talking to a herd of Yorkshiremen. Tha' can allus tell....... Good of you to say so, Jim, but I can't take any credit for what you call my 'system'. The methods and practices I talked Andy through yesterday have been part of the standard approach to diagnosing starting, misfiring and rough running woes for every diesel engine fitted with that same or similar design/type of in-line pumps with integral governors and camshafts ever since they were invented. All I did was pass on something that I was taught to do more years ago than I really care to remember, by fitters and engineers whose lives and jobs revolved round getting broken down diesel engines running again with the minimum of fannying about and in the least time possible. What more could anyone ask for when faced with a problem diesel engine that has to be sorted out with the least possible delay than one quick, easy check that tells you, in a matter of a very few minutes, everything you want to know about all three things, on that particular engine, that any diesel engine has to have before it'll start and run, . . . clean fuel (1) being injected at the right time (2) into cylinders with good enough compression (3) to raise the temperature in the combustion chambers to the point where the injected fuel ignites ?
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 4, 2018 6:26:39 GMT
Thanks Tony - I'd go along with what you say. But then the question is why was there emulsufied gunge.... water in the fuel... after only 250 engine running hours?
Has Andy been keeping his tank only a quarter full 'to save fuel', ie. like a lot of car drivers who run on almost empty because (God knows why) they think filling the tank "costs money".
I'm glad Andy's not in charge of anything important, such as telecommunications. Err...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 6:49:02 GMT
There shouldn't be any water in the diesel. Diesel engines should always be powered by diesel Learn something new every day
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